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thomascrown
Jan 4, 2003, 7:41 PM
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I am trying to decide what kind of runners are best for trad climbing. Are spectra runners really worth the extra money, or will nylon do just fine? Also, if you use spectra runners, is there a difference between Bluewater Titan and BD spectra? Just wondering,
Thanks
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pbcowboy77
Jan 4, 2003, 8:15 PM
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I use spectra runners for the fact that they are stronger and thinner. To answer your second question, yes there is a diffrence, but only in the KN ratting. If I'm not mistaken, which would'nt be the first time, Blue Water has a 24Kn Rating and is one of the highest, and BD has 21 or 22Kn rating which is one of the lowest as fer as runners go. I hope that helped you out.
-Zac
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stevematthys
Jan 4, 2003, 10:03 PM
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i use blue water sewn spectra runners because they are thiner, have a high kn rating and because a sewn runner is less bulky then a runner that is tied
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rprp
Jan 4, 2003, 10:30 PM
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I use spectra runners because of how much less bulk they have. The strength is not an issue since the nylon are plenty strong, but they are too big. I also have started using quite a few of the rabbit runner style that is a straight piece of spectra with a clip loop sewn into each end. I started with 4 foot ones, but I now use mostly 3 foot ones that I think are from Yates. They will also sew them to order any length you want.
I like this style because I use fewer biners with it. My cams already have a biner and the rabbit runner is around my shoulder clipped into a loop with one biner. I take the rabbit runner off by unclipping it (instead of trying to pull it over my head) and then clipping it to the cam. Then you clip the rope to the biner on the runner. It works great.
Since I don't carry tied nylon runners anymore, I have started to tie my chalk bag to my waist with a long piece of 1/2" webbing that I wrap around myself 2 or 3 times. This gives me some webbing to use for rap anchors.
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socialclimber
Jan 10, 2003, 12:54 PM
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Anyone have a problem with the stretchability of Spectra/Dynema compared to Nylon?
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rprp
Jan 10, 2003, 8:07 PM
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There is no stretch in these runners.
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drector
Jan 10, 2003, 8:15 PM
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I too use the BW Spectra runners. They have been very durable although I don't do much aid.
Spectra melts at a lower temparature which should never be an issue unless you do something way screwed-up.
Dave
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hugepedro
Jan 10, 2003, 8:23 PM
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I used to use tied nylon, but then I started thinking about it. 9/16 tape, rated at approximately 11kn, actual breaking point lower due to weakening at the knot and the bend around the biner, add to that the pulley effect on the top piece and I decided that it was very possible that a hefty fall could come close to or exceed the the strength of the runner. At least too close for my comfort.
I think any of the sewn ones are fine, whether 22kn or 24kn. Buy for price or weight, whichever is most important for you.
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bandycoot
Jan 10, 2003, 8:53 PM
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I think that the Bluewater is 27kN. I believe that is who I bought mine from.
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therealbovine
Jan 10, 2003, 9:09 PM
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For traditional leads - Go with 12" dyneema open slings. These are VERSITILE! You can use them as a 12" runner or as 4" (if you tripple them). Both sizes are great for any type of lead. Dyneema (by Blue Water, Wild Country, Dmm or Yates) is great because its "light and low-bulk" and as strong as you will ever need. Don't forget to grab a half dozen or more shoulder lengths while your at it. They can be used long or at 6" (trippled) and work great as a multi purpose runner also! Good luck!
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nimo
Jan 10, 2003, 9:14 PM
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I still use tied runners for my climbing needs. I go through runners on a regular basis in trad and aid so it is just more cost effective to buy a spool at a time. I also replace a lot of webbing on anchors, they do not last long in the sun out here.
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sparky
Jan 10, 2003, 11:34 PM
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I just spent the extra money on sewn s[ectra runners, thin but strong and not at all bulky is why I'd duggest those
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alpnclmbr1
Jan 10, 2003, 11:43 PM
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dynnema is lighter and less bulky then spectra, all you need is shoulder length.
If you use tied slings make sure you weight the knots, and check each one each time you use them (that is why I don't carry them, used to)
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calpolyclimber
Jan 11, 2003, 12:19 AM
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Go with the Blue Water Titan. A hefty 27 kn, and they are very very slim, they don't clog up your biners when you use/store them doubled, tripled, whatever.
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brutusofwyde
Jan 11, 2003, 1:48 PM
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Depends on the kind of climbing you do.
If you regularly venture off the beaten path, and often find yourself building rap anchors or backing up ancient tat around trees, tied runners are the way to go. We all climbed using tied runners for several decades, and they were (and are) plenty strong. If I take a fall that would break a tied runner in good condition, I have more serious problems than the strength of my runners: Climbing into a factor 2 situation where I could peel, for example. I still use tied runners for backcountry stuff in the High Sierra.
For cragging, just about any shoulder length stuff will do, tied nylon or sewn, sewn spectra, or sewn dyneema. Sewn are indeed less bulky, but for typical cragging this is not normally an issue for me.
If you have replaced all your carabiners with 36-gram wonders, if you climb in an alpine bod because it is lighter than most harnesses, if you're climbing on 50m double Beal ice lines and make your cam selections based on weight vs expansion range, or weight alone, Dyneema is the way to go.
These days I use one of any of the three styles, depending on the kind of climbing on the plate. And since I wander about so much, I almost never take any shorter runners than shoulder length. If I need something shorter, I double or triple the shoulder length, or use a screamer, of which I always carry several, be the climb Trad, Sport, Alpine, Ice, or Walls.
Second the comment about tied slings: If you use this system, body weight your knots, and recheck them before every climb. (you should be checking your gear before every climb anyways, so this was never an issue for me) Grapevines are fairly secure, but devilishly hard to untie without a pliers (Bad news for those icy stormy retreats) whereas the water knot is far easier to untie, but subject to slippage with cyclic loading.
Brutus
[ This Message was edited by: brutusofwyde on 2003-01-11 06:01 ]
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winkwinklambonini
Jan 11, 2003, 4:49 PM
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Two shoulders, and one double of anything half inch and sewn, doesn't matter.
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jbur
Jan 11, 2003, 11:01 PM
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I carry spectra runners, (black diamond, metolius, climb high) whatever the shop has in stock. On multi-pitch trad I usually carry one or two tied 11/16 nylon runners to thread features or back up rap stations. They come in handy.
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