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___o2
Sep 4, 2011, 3:27 PM
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I have never seen this technique used before which is why I am here. I want to toprope and self belay myself using my grigri except instead of tying one end of the rope onto my harness and running it up through an anchor point then back down to my grigri which is of course attached to my harness could I just tie a figure 8 on a bite on the top end of the rope and clip that into the anchor then insert the rope into my grigri at the bottom and start climbing? The only problem that I can see this creating is there would be less rope in the system which would increase the fall factor but if I am just toproping and constantly pulling the rope through the grigri I dont see this being much of a problem. Am I overlooking anything?
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jeffc
Sep 4, 2011, 3:54 PM
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Using an ascender (such as Petzl Basic or Croll) for top-rope self-belay works much better than a Grigri. The rope often doesn't feed itself automatically through a Grigri as you climb, which means you have to keep pulling the rope through. On the other hand, if use an ascender and you bundle up the left over rope at the bottom of the climb and leave it hanging a foot off the ground, you can simply climb without having to worry about the rope at all. The rope will feed itself through the ascender.
Note that if you use a sling around your shoulders (you'll need to play around with this to get it right) or a chest harness to mount the ascender at your chest (with a second biner attached from the bottom of the ascender to your harness), there will be very little slack in the system as you climb and thus very little in the way of fall factor on the rope if you fall.
Strictly speaking, you should knot the rope below you every 5 metres or so as a back-up, but I don't know many people who actually do this. I prefer to put a prussic knot above the ascender and attach the prussic cord to my harness as a back-up.
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___o2
Sep 4, 2011, 4:23 PM
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Chilli - Awesome article, thank you. I never considered using the extra rope as a back up that I could pre-knot and clip into as I climb.
Jeffc - I have been pondering purchasing an ascender but I figure that reaching down and feeding the rope through my grigri wont be much different then stopping to clip while lead climbing. I also pondered the idea of tying backup knots as I climb but I like your technique of using a prussik knot as a backup much better. Thank you.
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puravida9539
Sep 7, 2011, 2:17 PM
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Don't use an ascender. You don't want to fall and have to rely on teeth to catch you. They have been known to slice ropes. Use a grigri, an eddy, a soloist, a silent partner, or a couple minitraxions.
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DougMartin
Sep 7, 2011, 2:53 PM
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Also use a shoulder harness! Clip your gri-gri to your belay loop and your shoulder harness this will keep the gri-gri orientated correctly to help rope self-feed and it keeps the rope readily available should you need to pull slack. Searching around for what end of the rope to pull when taking slack out of the system sucks when your holding onto little crimpers or such! I'll work on a picture to illustrate!
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aprice00
Sep 7, 2011, 4:58 PM
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Just throwing this out there to get some feedback but you might use a stone knot on a single rope instead of two ropes.
Thoughts?
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kennoyce
Sep 7, 2011, 5:21 PM
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puravida9539 wrote: Don't use an ascender. You don't want to fall and have to rely on teeth to catch you. They have been known to slice ropes. Use a grigri, an eddy, a soloist, a silent partner, or a couple minitraxions.
Is it just me that finds the above bolded portions hilarious?
For the OP, 2 mini traxions are the standard TR soloing setup, and yes, they do have teeth;)
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gunkiemike
Sep 7, 2011, 7:53 PM
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kennoyce wrote: puravida9539 wrote: Don't use an ascender. You don't want to fall and have to rely on teeth to catch you. They have been known to slice ropes. Use a grigri, an eddy, a soloist, a silent partner, or a couple minitraxions. Is it just me that finds the above bolded portions hilarious? For the OP, 2 mini traxions are the standard TR soloing setup, and yes, they do have teeth;)
And so does the Petzl Basic ascender. Which MANY soloists have used safely for years. I've put hundreds of pitches on mine with not so much as a single sheath yarn pulled out of place. Petzl recommends it for top rope self belay. Who are you going to believe, Puravida (who I'm betting has never climbed with a toothed device), or the manufacturer?
As for the Grigri, it's the gateway drug of solo TR. You'll tire of pulling the slack through quickly enough, and will then buy a better piece of hardware.
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___o2
Sep 8, 2011, 9:08 PM
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"gateway drug" haha, well Im just happy to know that it is a safe tool to start with. I can almost always find someone to rock climb with so I dont know if soloing will become my favorite thing ever but I will be using the set up a lot for backpacking into mountainless areas and climbing up into trees to set up my hammock 50+ feet off the ground. Thanks so much for all the ideas guys!
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gunkiemike
Sep 8, 2011, 9:30 PM
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___o2 wrote: ...I will be using the set up a lot for backpacking into mountainless areas and climbing up into trees to set up my hammock 50+ feet off the ground. Thanks so much for all the ideas guys!
Doesn't sound like top rope belaying any more.
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tolman_paul
Sep 8, 2011, 10:27 PM
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Any device that doesn't self feed is crap for solo free climbing, though tollerable for aid.
There is plenty of information, and some sobering warnings regarded self belaying, spend some time researching the subject and keep yourself safe.
Another to consider is if you fall and you are free hanging, how are you going to get yourself down?
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climbingtrash
Sep 9, 2011, 2:46 AM
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aprice00 wrote: Just throwing this out there to get some feedback but you might use a stone knot on a single rope instead of two ropes. Thoughts?
What do you mean on a single rope instead of two ropes?
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chilli
Sep 9, 2011, 5:51 AM
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climbingtrash wrote: What do you mean on a single rope instead of two ropes?
i suspect aprice is referring to...
___o2 wrote: Chilli - Awesome article, thank you. I never considered using the extra rope as a back up that I could pre-knot and clip into as I climb.
the point made about a single rope is valid and i've gone that route instead of a second rope (never actually lugged a second rope, come to think of it), but i'm not familiar with the stone knot. looks handy for avoiding binding (vs. 8).
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___o2
Sep 9, 2011, 5:51 AM
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gunkiemike wrote: ___o2 wrote: ...I will be using the set up a lot for backpacking into mountainless areas and climbing up into trees to set up my hammock 50+ feet off the ground. Thanks so much for all the ideas guys! Doesn't sound like top rope belaying any more.
When tree climbing you can set up a top rope from the ground by using a throw line to pull the rope over a branch. In my case I plan on making a figure 8 on a bite on one end then clipping that into the other side of the rope and pulling it tight so that it creates a girth-type hitch on the branch in the canopy.
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___o2
Sep 9, 2011, 6:03 AM
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tolman_paul wrote: Another to consider is if you fall and you are free hanging, how are you going to get yourself down?
Ok, I feel like I am being extremely naive when I ask this question but why can't I just descend the rope with my grigri? If I have a single rope running from the anchor point at top to the rope pile at the bottom and I am climbing with my grigri attatched to that rope then I can just use the lever on my grigri to descend back to the bottom of the climb. Am I missing something? I still have yet to solo with the grigri so again, sorry if that came off as extremely niave.
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chilli
Sep 9, 2011, 6:30 AM
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wait... "trees"? what?
this is a different application than i had envisioned from your original post. Are you planning on "soloing" up the tree or ascending a fixed line? And why are you hanging hammocks 50+ft up? bears? hang your food! And where are you going that has the sort of tree with good branching for hammocks at 50ft that you can climb w/o spikes or ascenders?
btw, backpacking with a pre-knotted second rope, and/or expecting a multi-knotted rope to be a smooth operation in trees would be dumb. go with backing up below your grigri on the single rope (and bring prussic loops/cord to CYA).
FYI: pulling a previously weighted rope that bends through a fig-8 on a branch is not a job for string; believe me. I assume you're using a throw weight/monkey fist for a decently strong pull-line? this whole thing sounds like a lot of extra backpack weight and effort to me. there must be some nasties in those woods.
(This post was edited by chilli on Sep 9, 2011, 6:55 AM)
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mckbill
Sep 9, 2011, 11:52 AM
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Remember to practice solo with someone near by to help in case you have problems. I know that pretty much defeats the purpose of 'solo', but should you get stuck you'll be glad to have a friend to help instead of having to rely on the luck of someone passing by.
Also, please be kind to trees. Even though the rope is soft, it can damage the bark as you pull it.
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___o2
Sep 9, 2011, 12:34 PM
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chilli wrote: wait... "trees"? what? this is a different application than i had envisioned from your original post. Are you planning on "soloing" up the tree or ascending a fixed line? And why are you hanging hammocks 50+ft up? bears? hang your food! And where are you going that has the sort of tree with good branching for hammocks at 50ft that you can climb w/o spikes or ascenders? btw, backpacking with a pre-knotted second rope, and/or expecting a multi-knotted rope to be a smooth operation in trees would be dumb. go with backing up below your grigri on the single rope (and bring prussic loops/cord to CYA). FYI: pulling a previously weighted rope that bends through a fig-8 on a branch is not a job for string; believe me. I assume you're using a throw weight/monkey fist for a decently strong pull-line? this whole thing sounds like a lot of extra backpack weight and effort to me. there must be some nasties in those woods.
No I am NOT planning on ascending the fixed line. That isn't tree climbing, that is rope climbing and I never understood why arborists and the like refer to that as tree climbing. But how about for simplicity we will pretend that I never said anything about climbing trees. My original question was just a prerequisit to learning how to solo (with a friend!). And soloing with a friend is a prereq of soloing safely alone.
And you are right about this being a lot of extra gear for backpacking. I used to be an ultralight backpacker with a base weight close to 10 pounds and now my ropes alone weigh more then that. The extra effort is worth it to me because ever since my first combined backpacking/rockclimbing trip backpacking without climbing seems boring. There are no nasties in my woods (unless you count the bloodthirsty mosquitoes), I just set my hamock up high in the tree because I am a complete sissy at night when I am backpacking solo. Seriously when I am in the woods alone after dark every little squirl footstep or chipmunk noise is actually a mutant tiger or a three headed grizzly, haha, sleeping in the trees makes me feel safe from the imaginary monsters.
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chilli
Sep 10, 2011, 5:29 PM
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ok, that's cool. whatever works for you. admittedly, the notion of canopy napping seems cool.
as far as your original TR solo question (including the consideration of trees), i'd say the preknotted line (or other side of rope) is fine for rock TR, but i'd backup below your grigri on a single line in the trees to aviod snags.
*edit: don't forget those prussic loops to get you out of a bind 
(This post was edited by chilli on Sep 10, 2011, 5:40 PM)
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