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Whoa! Was something done to the points...again?!
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metoliusmunchkin


Jan 3, 2003, 2:00 PM
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Whoa! Was something done to the points...again?!
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I was right off the list, but now am like on the list...what's the deal?


fo_d


Jan 3, 2003, 4:12 PM
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I also noticed that several of the top Minnesota users are missing from the list but I'm still there, what gives?

Les


fo_d


Jan 4, 2003, 7:27 AM
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Hmm, seems nobody gives a fliyin @#$% about our missing users


Partner rrrADAM


Jan 4, 2003, 7:36 AM
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I'm not sure, but I think that points for "page views" have been removed to more accurately reflect a user's contributions.


Partner rrrADAM


Jan 4, 2003, 7:37 AM
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I lost over 150,000.


fo_d


Jan 4, 2003, 7:54 AM
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I had ignored the thread about points untill a few minutes ago, and after browsing it a little I kinda guessed that might be what happened.

Les


Partner tim


Jan 4, 2003, 7:59 AM
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(edit: bumped this post to page 1)

here's the actual, current algorithm:

o) visits are tallied up, one point each.
This clearly needs to go, or be divided by
100 or 1000 or something.

next,

o) photos with a 5 or up get 100 points
o) photos with a 6 or up get 200
o) " " " 6.5 or up get 350
o) " " " 7 or up get 500
o) " " " 7.5 or up get 700
o) " " " 8 or up get 1000
o) " " " 8.5 or up get 1500
o) " " " 9 or up get 2000
o) " " " 9.5 or up get 3000

next,

o) posts to forums * 10 == forum points
o) replies to forums * 10 += forum points
o) views of user's threads += forum points

next,

o) each area a user adds to the database (that doesn't get removed ) is worth 100
o) each section of an area is worth 50
o) each route is worth 20

next,

o) being an area manager is worth 500 points
o) writing an article is worth 2000 points
o) adding a link is worth 25 points

finally,

o) Q-votes are (have always been) independent of point scores. This should maybe change.


Suggestions/input? This is going to change to reflect evolving needs (eg. when I write the article search engine and FAQ search engine, you can damn well bet that people will get more points for article views or managing a section of the FAQ than for posting a thread that starts a flamewar).

I've also wondered whether owner-appointed 'heros' and 'patrons' ala photo.net wouldn't be a useful multiplier to add. Then we could actually translate the points into something worthwhile, like a weight on what the user's input for code needs should be (eg. someone with a million points probably has seen a lot of things come and go; someone with two points may have a lot of 'great ideas' that are not practical for this particular situation, though it'll always have to be a judgement call).

Likewise, I'm thinking that having a big multiplier on the negative points accrued for being killfiled (coming this week) might encourage less harassment of users, etc.

Adam, the one thing you ever did wrong, is no longer a vulnerability on this site. I don't speak for all the admins or any fraction of the users, but I personally would like to see you back in some modicum of control, since you obviously do care about the site, perhaps more than anyone else on here.

Just in case you were wondering what I thought about *that*... I do not think you are untrustworthy, just human; and as humans make errors, so can we safeguard against them making them twice. I believe that it is at least as important to have a decisive, active leadership presence on the site, as it is to have a diplomatic, considered arbiter around.

Also, I'm sick of that excuse "but poor wittle me, I don't run things here anymore". Bite the bullet, BRUTHA! The site was better when you around as head slave driver, and it's too popular now for just one (busy) man to run anymore.

There's my position for you, in public.


[ This Message was edited by: tim on 2003-01-05 10:37 ]


wv5ten


Jan 4, 2003, 8:50 AM
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haha go tim


nikegirl


Jan 4, 2003, 9:01 AM
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dissregard my pm ADAM

Oh you all don't wanna know HOW pissed I was!!!!!!!!!!!

It takes a lot...to piss me off. This was on my topper!!!
* my lesson in this? Patience...patience...there is a REASON.

deep breath*

all bettter

hyde is back...
jeckyl is bye bye

heh

~T


Partner rrrADAM


Jan 5, 2003, 6:51 AM
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So, "page views" reflect contributions HOW ???


cass


Jan 5, 2003, 7:52 AM
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What is all the fuss about!
Can your points be converted into dollars, cents, dimes or something ?
WTF!
People did you join to gain points or learn, contribute - what?
This is not a kindergarten...or is it...you can ask for gold stars to be replaced by points, if you wish


and this is just my very last €0.02, so don't spend it all at once


nikegirl


Jan 5, 2003, 8:33 AM
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Page per veiws?? If I'm going thru an entire morning reading threads, and moving them, Pming users on descresion(as MOD or ADMIN) Spending this TIME on each page is a to me is a CONTRIBUTION.

done with my "point" and cass...
I'm not asking for a "sticker" I'm saying don't take away in RETRO!
And don't say I don't contribute on page per view...
becuase I do or should i say did.

Say otherwise... it's your opinion, then.


feh


~T



cass


Jan 5, 2003, 8:37 AM
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ah but T they are cute!!
:)

[ This Message was edited by: cass on 2003-01-05 08:39 ]


Partner rrrADAM


Jan 5, 2003, 9:13 AM
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T... Those contributions should be accounted for, as I asked for coding to be written for points awarded for all individual actions Moderators and Editors do.

The reason "page views" should not count, is that some users simply hit "refresh" and accrue points for it, sometimes 20,000 in a day. How does this exploitation of "page views" represent any contributions ???


stevematthys


Jan 5, 2003, 9:30 AM
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yea, i agree with adam.


Partner tim


Jan 5, 2003, 9:30 AM
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Quote:
T... Those contributions should be accounted for, as I asked for coding to be written for points awarded for all individual actions Moderators and Editors do.


Eric is available for contract work, you know. Otherwise things get written as we have time.

Nothing personal, but the volume of code required for the site's needs (killfiles, better webmail, better user management, phpbb2 migration, auto-FAQ, searchable articles & faqs) is immense, and there is an enormous difference between thinking of something that needs to be done, and doing it. Unfortunately the former is much easier.

I'm spending today catching up on (paid) work because of the dent (rc.com) coding put into my work this week.


climblaw


Jan 5, 2003, 9:42 AM
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As a retailer or gym owner looking to advertise, the number of page views per day would be of GREAT interest to me. Thus, all "page views" should be condisered contributions to any web site.


Partner rrrADAM


Jan 5, 2003, 9:52 AM
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The code should already be written and active, as I gave details to a coder months ago.

"Page Views" are totaled here, and tracked. The reason they should not count for points, is that the points are to reflect a users contributions by adding content to the site. How do "page views" reflect any contribution ???


Partner tim


Jan 5, 2003, 9:55 AM
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Quote:
The code should already be written and active, as I gave details to a coder months ago.


Does this mysterious coder have a name?

I'm Tim. There's another guy named Eric, and there used to be a guy named Trevor, only he had a kid and went to business school.

I don't have any spec for what the point values should be (other than "no page views" from about 2 weeks ago) so it must be one of those other two layabouts. Fire them!

Can you think of anyone else who actually writes code on the site? I told Ed McMahon to drop off my $10 Million (tax free) YEARS ago, and it's still not here...


Partner one900johnnyk


Jan 5, 2003, 9:58 AM
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i agree that page views should not be counted. my question is how do you track the number of points you have if you're not a top user (which i think i am now.. jackpot) and how do you find the exact allocation of points? is pposting a new route more than a picture or a thread of yours that gets viewed 500 times? it's not really that important to me but i guess there has to be some means to encourage site contribution esp. in the routes database since i view that as rc.com's best asset. like i said, not really important to me but if you ah ve answers on these questions i'd appreciate it. just trying to waste time.


Partner rrrADAM


Jan 5, 2003, 10:00 AM
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It was either Eric or Biff, if that was his name... The guy who revamped the Photo Gallery the first time. I believe this was in July or August.

And all page views should be removed from the point totals... I stand to lose the 2nd most amount of points, but my page views, nor those of any others, reflect any contributions.


Partner rrrADAM


Jan 5, 2003, 10:04 AM
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BTW... These are just "suggestions"... I'm not in charge anymore, so for all I care, you can award 100 points to each user who creatively gets a swear word in past the filter.

The logic and intent of the points system, is to accurately reflect a user's contributions. "Page Views" does not meet that intent.


Partner tim


Jan 5, 2003, 10:35 AM
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here's the actual, current algorithm:

o) visits are tallied up, one point each.
This clearly needs to go, or be divided by
100 or 1000 or something.

next,

o) photos with a 5 or up get 100 points
o) photos with a 6 or up get 200
o) " " " 6.5 or up get 350
o) " " " 7 or up get 500
o) " " " 7.5 or up get 700
o) " " " 8 or up get 1000
o) " " " 8.5 or up get 1500
o) " " " 9 or up get 2000
o) " " " 9.5 or up get 3000

next,

o) posts to forums * 10 == forum points
o) replies to forums * 10 += forum points
o) views of user's threads += forum points

next,

o) each area a user adds to the database (that doesn't get removed ) is worth 100
o) each section of an area is worth 50
o) each route is worth 20

next,

o) being an area manager is worth 500 points
o) writing an article is worth 2000 points
o) adding a link is worth 25 points

finally,

o) Q-votes are (have always been) independent of point scores. This should maybe change.


Suggestions/input? This is going to change to reflect evolving needs (eg. when I write the article search engine and FAQ search engine, you can damn well bet that people will get more points for article views or managing a section of the FAQ than for posting a thread that starts a flamewar).

I've also wondered whether owner-appointed 'heros' and 'patrons' ala photo.net wouldn't be a useful multiplier to add. Then we could actually translate the points into something worthwhile, like a weight on what the user's input for code needs should be (eg. someone with a million points probably has seen a lot of things come and go; someone with two points may have a lot of 'great ideas' that are not practical for this particular situation, though it'll always have to be a judgement call).

Likewise, I'm thinking that having a big multiplier on the negative points accrued for being killfiled (coming this week) might encourage less harassment of users, etc.

Adam, the one thing you ever did wrong, is no longer a vulnerability on this site. I don't speak for all the admins or any fraction of the users, but I personally would like to see you back in some modicum of control, since you obviously do care about the site, perhaps more than anyone else on here.

Just in case you were wondering what I thought about *that*... I do not think you are untrustworthy, just human; and as humans make errors, so can we safeguard against them making them twice. I believe that it is at least as important to have a decisive, active leadership presence on the site, as it is to have a diplomatic, considered arbiter around.

Also, I'm sick of that excuse "but poor wittle me, I don't run things here anymore". Bite the bullet, BRUTHA! The site was better when you around as head slave driver, and it's too popular now for just one (busy) man to run anymore.

[ This Message was edited by: tim on 2003-01-05 10:36 ]


fo_d


Jan 5, 2003, 11:57 AM
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There should be some way to stop giving points for veiwing a page that you already veiwed, and I think looking thru the threads can contribute, If I dont look at the diferent threads I dont really know whats going on and its harder to contribute but if I look over the threads i can find places where I can add somethong to the discussion (I know its kinda thin) but browsing the threads is diferent from refreshing on the same page over and over just to get points, I',m no coder but I suspect it would be that hard to stop giving points for reveiwed pages. also if people are browsing just for the points, it still serves a usefull pupose, I think advertisers probly check in now and then to see how many people are on re.com the more the merrier.

Umm..one thing about the points, I sure didnt start hanging out here for the points, I would leave this site and never come back if points were eliminated, but to me I cant say they are compleatly worthless. I think almost anyone who sees their nick in the top 5 users for their state might start to feel a little protective of their points, yeah its a little like grade shcool but if it give even the smallest amount of motivation to contribute to the site then it seems like a good thing.

Les


Partner tim


Jan 5, 2003, 12:14 PM
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Les...

Some of your ideas are good ones, but would require some pretty sophisticated manipulation and comparison of cookies for unique userids.

Eg. making sure that a given user's viewing of their own thread isn't given the same weight as another user's viewing of it, would require an extra database table which would get pretty huge in a hurry, and be hit several times a second. The site already runs at about 80% - 160% utilization (rolling average), and this sort of additional load would not help. Plus, extra checks are being written in for killfiles, which will bump the load a bit.

Basically, while I'd like to incorporate all reasonable suggestions, there are some (uniqueness-based, in general) that are too computationally intensive to be feasible for a relatively minor feature like this.

What I'm looking for in terms of implementable changes, is mostly items that can be easily weighted but aren't (eg. 'heroes' of the site who are mainstays of the appeal, eg. jgill, maybe should recieve some sort of recognition for their status as climbers, not just site members; repugnancy, hence the 'killfile penalty'; basically, things that are relatively easy to quantify without overhauling the site's code).

Having done the whole unique-users-cookie thing I can guarantee that the payoff is miniscule compared to the labor involved for a site of this size and 'business model'. Sad but true -- HTTP is stateless, any attempt at statefulness must be kludged in.

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