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rescueman
Aug 22, 2011, 8:16 PM
Post #51 of 63
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jbro_135 wrote: The only thing I would change is the girth hitch for the sewn sling, you lose a significant amount of strength that way.
Really?
The load line on the blue sling is near 180° with no deflection, so there is no strength loss at all. Even with a small deflection, the reduction in strength with a double strand is irrelevant.
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rescueman
Aug 22, 2011, 8:46 PM
Post #52 of 63
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dugl33 wrote: Its interesting how this thread weaves around the idea that the anchor is overkill (too good?), but let's beat it to death from every angle just the same.
Sometimes "overkill" can make a system worse, not better.
Besides the use of a loose clove hitch "backed up" by a figure-8 on a bight with a foot of slack that can run through the hitch before it cinches (if at all) and disequalize the master point...
I would also discourage the use of opposite and opposed lockers. This is a habit from the days of non-locking biners where opposition was necessary for security. The locking gate provides the same security as opposed non-lockers, and doubling the biners still makes sense to give the TR a larger bend radius. But opposing two lockers typically places one gate against the rock where it can be damaged and, with D-shaped biners, you're better off aligning the spines.
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rescueman
Aug 22, 2011, 8:48 PM
Post #53 of 63
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cracklover wrote: 1 - KISS. The more complex you make the systems, the more chance for something to go wrong.
Einstein said that every solution should be as simple as possible but no simpler.
There is a difference between unnecessary complexity and intelligent backup or redundancy.
A clove hitch in very stiff static line is NOT a reliable anchor, but a better backup for a clove is a double overhand of the tail tied around the standing part of the rope, tight to the hitch. This prevents slippage.
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rescueman
Aug 22, 2011, 8:50 PM
Post #54 of 63
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jcapell wrote: the main problem I have at this climbing site is equalizing the anchor without being able to see the masterpoint from above. (it drops out and over a ledge below where I'm standing to build the anchor) The clove hitch allows me to fine tune the setup based on input from others at the base of the cliff.
I would have a serious problem with blindly adjusting a master point according to advice given by people at the bottom of the climb.
If I tossed an anchor master point over the edge where I couldn't see it from the anchor trees, I would tie myself off and prusik down to the edge to make sure it is properly placed and balanced.
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rescueman
Aug 22, 2011, 8:54 PM
Post #55 of 63
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jcapell wrote: I personally like having more than one strand going through my master point biners if I'm going to be TRing and lowering on it all day.
The only reason this would be preferable to a simple figure-8 on a bight is if it was rubbing on the rock with the potential for a single eye to abrade and fail.
A single eye of 11 mm static line is more than ample for any amount of top roping.
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YouWill787
Sep 9, 2011, 7:22 PM
Post #56 of 63
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I am new to climbing. So after reading through this thread I just had to ask..
Would it have been suitable to just make a big loop out of the static rope with a figure 8, clip it through the biners on the slings, bring it down into 2 points, equalize it out in the direction of the climb, and then tie a big fat overhand knot (or figure 8) in the middle for the master point, then clip the biners into the end and run the climbing rope through?
The method I just mentioned seems simple: Less knots to malfunction, equalized, still utilizing slings, doesn't require any additional equipment... But is it safe?
Something like this.. haha
(This post was edited by YouWill787 on Sep 9, 2011, 7:24 PM)
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gmggg
Sep 9, 2011, 7:29 PM
Post #57 of 63
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YouWill787 wrote: I am new to climbing. So after reading through this thread I just had to ask.. Would it have been suitable to just make a big loop out of the static rope with a figure 8, clip it through the biners on the slings, bring it down into 2 points, equalize it out in the direction of the climb, and then tie a big fat figure 8 in the middle for the master point, then clip the biners into the end and run the climbing rope through? The method I just mentioned seems simple: Less knots to malfunction, equalized, still utilizing slings, doesn't require any additional equipment... But is it safe? Something like this.. haha
Yep, that's fine. The advantage of clove hitches on the protection points is that you can adjust the length and equalization of your rig at will with minimal effort. The advantage of not having them is speed(unless you need to readjust for different climbs and situations throughout the day).
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cracklover
Sep 11, 2011, 10:59 PM
Post #58 of 63
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YouWill787 wrote: I am new to climbing. So after reading through this thread I just had to ask.. Would it have been suitable to just make a big loop out of the static rope with a figure 8, clip it through the biners on the slings, bring it down into 2 points, equalize it out in the direction of the climb, and then tie a big fat overhand knot (or figure 8) in the middle for the master point, then clip the biners into the end and run the climbing rope through? The method I just mentioned seems simple: Less knots to malfunction, equalized, still utilizing slings, doesn't require any additional equipment... But is it safe? Something like this.. haha
Is it safe?
Yes.
GO
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Rmsyll2
Sep 14, 2011, 3:55 AM
Post #59 of 63
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One of the best topics I've ever seen here, thanks all. Some small points.
The two slings are used very differently. The girth hitch is positioned, as 'rescueman' says, so that there is very little stress at the loop, which can be a very weakening point. But it puts all the force on one pair of strands, with a highest stress at the carabiner. Passing around the tree lets the load be shared by the two sides, and offers sharing of load at the carabiner too.
A double-bight loop for the belay point (I don't like "master" or "power"; and an overhand is g.e.) has a loop for a tail. Including that in the carabiners locks it; but it must be a bit slack to take no load. I've been doing that; but per 'gunkiemike' no longer will. I hated the bulk in the 'biner anyway.
Thanks to 'dugl33' for "if you have enough tail to tie a knot, you have enough tail."
The spelling by 'dbogardus' of "cordalette" is imo better, compared to JLong's "cordelette", and now 'bill413's "cordellette". What the OP has is an equalized single-line loop, and that does not have a distinguishing term that I've noticed, other than "equalized". OP did what suits fat stiff cord, imo.
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Rmsyll2
Sep 15, 2011, 2:22 AM
Post #61 of 63
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Could you also clarify what makes something a cordelette? It seemed to mean a way to equalize three Trad anchors with one long loop, but also has become a general term that I don't know when to apply. Please include equalette and quadralette, and top-rope bolted anchors versus Trad.
Then, this topic will be a complete course in anchors, won't it?
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hugepedro
Sep 15, 2011, 4:59 AM
Post #62 of 63
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Rmsyll2 wrote: Could you also clarify what makes something a cordelette? It seemed to mean a way to equalize three Trad anchors with one long loop, but also has become a general term that I don't know when to apply. Please include equalette and quadralette, and top-rope bolted anchors versus Trad. Then, this topic will be a complete course in anchors, won't it? .
It's a piece of cord, usually from 16 to 22 feet long depending on preference, strong enough for anchor rigging, typically 7mm, tied in a loop. That's it. People make up other "lette" names for their over thought variations on how to rig the thing.
I don't know why anyone would use it for a bolted anchor.
A complete course? Not really.
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