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guangzhou


Oct 20, 2011, 6:08 PM
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Ban Guided CLimbing in National Parks
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I just recieved this from the American Mountain Guide Association. They like to keep guides who are members of the organization posted on issues that effect the American Mountain Guiding Scene.

In reply to:
The National Park Service wants to ban guided climbing and prohibit members of the
public from being able to climb with a professional guide in one of our country's
most adventurous wilderness climbing areas. This is a national threat, which could
set a debilitating precedent for guided climbing access in National Parks across
the country. We are requesting your urgent support to help preserve guided climbing
access in the Black Canyon as well as in other National Parks the U.S.

Here is how you can help:

Send an email to Ken_Stahlnecker@nps.gov [mailto:Ken_Stahlnecker@nps.gov] today
using the talking points below. Our goal is to have 500 people (who are not guides)
contact Ken Stahlnecker opposing the Park's plan to ban guided climbing in the Black
Canyon and urging the Park to preserve guiding climbing access in this unique venue.

Dear Ken Stahlnecker,

Chief, Resource Stewardship and Science

National Park Service,

Black Canyon of the Gunnison National Park

I am writing to urge you to keep guided climbing access available to the American
public. Along with Yosemite National Park and Red Rocks National Conservation Area,
the Black Canyon is one of only a few climbing venues in the country offering big
wall climbing opportunities. There is often a scarcity of willing and adequate climbing
partners to tackle the bold and remote terrain of the Black. Because climbing requires
a team of two unless one is free soloing, my options for experiencing this unique
wilderness area will be substantially reduced or eliminated altogether if guided
climbing is banned in the Inner Canyon Zone.

Having the option to climb with a professional guide is necessary for me to be able
to experience the vertical wilderness in the Black Canyon. Partnering with a professional
guide will enhance my opportunity for an experience of adventure, challenge and
self-reliance. I see no difference between climbing with a professional guide and
climbing with a non-guide partner who happens to be stronger or more experienced
than me. It is not uncommon for climbing partners to be of varying levels of experience.
Climbing successfully in the Black always requires the self-reliance, commitment
and personal fortitude of both climbing partners regardless of their varying experience
levels.

Thank you for the opportunity to provide my opinion on this important matter.


dudemanbu


Oct 20, 2011, 7:34 PM
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Re: [guangzhou] Ban Guided CLimbing in National Parks [In reply to]
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Hi Everyone-

I've read up on this a bit and I think it might be helpful to also stress that this issue does not only center around the national park service's goals and ambitions for the character and "challenge" for the area (and other national parks). This is also a matter of JOBS at a time where social and political pressure is making JOBS an extreemly hot topic.


I suggest that we somehow work this into the correspondence. To hear from people that are NOT guides who are concerned (and maybe even bitter) about the prospect of arbitrarily reducing the opportunity for employment for hardworking american citizens might be an additional effective talking point.

Any one have any ideas, statistics, or figures that we could use to make this point? The current plan does not only eliminate guided climbing, but ALL commercial guiding in the interior zone of the park.

However, to put things in perspective and give full disclosure, the ban does not apply to the entire park (or any other parks at the moment to my knowledge). A large amount of the relevant information is below.

"Implementation of the proposed action would eliminate guided climbing in the inner canyon,
but would provide opportunity for additional commercial services in other areas of the park and
national recreation area, including guided climbing in the East Portal-Morrow Point zone.
Although, one or more climbing guides may experience adverse economic effects, these effects
could be offset, in total or in part, by increased economic opportunities for the same or other
types of services in other areas of the park or national recreation area. Because the impacts to
the socioeconomic environment would be negligible, socioeconomics was dismissed from
further analysis in this environmental assessment."

It goes on
"The proposed action would adopt, with modifications, the Interim Climbing Management Plan.
The proposed climbing management plan emphasizes “clean climbing,” requires authorization
for new fixed anchors, and closely manages new routes to meet the desired conditions for
protection of the wilderness character in the inner canyon of Black Canyon NP. The climbing
management plan would be expanded to address Curecanti NRA, and would aim at meeting the
desired backcountry conditions in that area. The proposed climbing management plan can be
found in appendix C. "

"To maintain and improve opportunities for challenge, self-reliance, and adventure that are
integral to the wilderness character of the inner canyon wilderness zone, it has been determined
that no commercial services would be necessary or appropriate in the Black Canyon inner
canyon wilderness zone. Introducing commercial services would diminish general public
recreational opportunities and would monopolize limited access opportunities at the expense of
visitors participating in hiking, camping, and fishing activities. To maintain and improve
opportunities for challenge, self-reliance, and adventure that are integral to the wilderness
character of the inner canyon wilderness zone, guided climbing would not be authorized.
Detailed information about conditions for climbing and kayaking would be available to visitors
so they may make informed choices about challenges, planning, and assuming risks. An analysis
of commercial services can be found in appendix E. "


For the entire file, go here http://parkplanning.nps.gov/...%20EA%5FAug2011%2Epdf


(This post was edited by dudemanbu on Oct 20, 2011, 8:00 PM)


TradEddie


Oct 21, 2011, 8:27 AM
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Re: [guangzhou] Ban Guided CLimbing in National Parks [In reply to]
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Isn't guided climbing already prohibited in Yosemite, unless you go with the "approved" service?

TE


majid_sabet


Oct 21, 2011, 9:45 AM
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Re: [TradEddie] Ban Guided CLimbing in National Parks [In reply to]
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TradEddie wrote:
Isn't guided climbing already prohibited in Yosemite, unless you go with the "approved" service?

TE

yes, the guiding services are generally contracted to privet companies which have agreements with national park and outsiders can't just do it.


guangzhou


Oct 21, 2011, 5:39 PM
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No, it's not banned, it's limited in Yosemite. To guide there, you have to apply for the right to do business there, sort of like commercial photography. Same process, almost, as getting a concession.

This one banned climbing, this means guide services won't even be able to apply to guide in the area.


TradEddie


Oct 22, 2011, 11:36 AM
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Yeah,"limited" is the word. I called up looking for a guide several weeks in advance and was told they didn't have any guides. Not that they were all booked, just that they had none working... They're given a monopoly and they couldn't even provide the most basic service.
On the bright side, I got to climb with Karl Baba instead.

TE


USnavy


Feb 3, 2012, 2:52 AM
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guangzhou wrote:
No, it's not banned, it's limited in Yosemite. To guide there, you have to apply for the right to do business there, sort of like commercial photography. Same process, almost, as getting a concession.

This one banned climbing, this means guide services won't even be able to apply to guide in the area.
Except in the case of guiding on El Cap and Half Dome. I am under the impression that only YMS is authorized to bring parties up on the big stone, and than the client is not allowed to lead. But it does not matter because there are a number of world class or professional climbers that will guide you if you ask them.


(This post was edited by USnavy on Feb 3, 2012, 2:55 AM)


Gmburns2000


Feb 3, 2012, 6:38 AM
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Re: [TradEddie] Ban Guided CLimbing in National Parks [In reply to]
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TradEddie wrote:
Yeah,"limited" is the word. I called up looking for a guide several weeks in advance and was told they didn't have any guides. Not that they were all booked, just that they had none working... They're given a monopoly and they couldn't even provide the most basic service.
On the bright side, I got to climb with Karl Baba instead.

TE

The whole idea of a monopoly in our national park system anyway completely blows, but that's another thread I guess.


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