Nov 29, 2011, 6:48 PM
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Is it possible to have a happy/fulfilled life without being sexually active?
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My sister and I were having a conversation over Thanksgiving, and this question arose. I thought I'd post a poll to see what a random cross-section of English speaking people think. :)
I find it hard to imagine. But the world is full of strangeness, so who am I to decide what is and isn't possible for someone, especially if they claim that this is how they experience the world.
Nov 30, 2011, 7:27 AM
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Re: [SylviaSmile] Is it possible to have a happy/fulfilled life without being sexually active?
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I have no doubt that it's possible, but I think a great majority of the people that would claim to be asexual just aren't confident enough to find a partner or have had very bad heartbreaking experiences or depression or been molested or some such, and rather than being hurt again or facing their fears they will choose an unfullfilling asexual lifestyle choice and they will be content with it.
I find it hard to imagine. But the world is full of strangeness, so who am I to decide what is and isn't possible for someone, especially if they claim that this is how they experience the world.
Interesting. It says, "An asexual is someone who does not experience sexual attraction. Unlike celibacy, which people choose, asexuality is an intrinsic part of who we are." (I added emphasis) For those who are not asexual, which is probably most people, is the choice not to act on sexual attractions/desires one that leads to unhappiness or lack of fulfillment?
Nov 30, 2011, 10:47 PM
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Re: [SylviaSmile] Is it possible to have a happy/fulfilled life without being sexually active?
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Sure.. but its not normal and is either the result of a problem with your endocrine system (extremely low hormone levels .. etc..) or mental trauma.
Self preservation and procreation are the driving factors for human beings.. sex drive is part of our evolution because it drives the species.. develops adaptation etc..
I think peope who have neither of the problems I mentioned and claim they are happy or fulfilled without a sex life are liars who probably just cant get laid and use celibacy as their excuse for their complete lack of social competence with the opposite sex.
Nov 30, 2011, 11:52 PM
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Re: Is it possible to have a happy/fulfilled life without being sexually active?
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Happiness and fulfillment are completely subjective. If someone is deluding themself into believing they're happy when they're not, then they are in fact happy and fulfilled, at least for as long as their delusion holds.
I believe people can be willingly celibate and lead a happy and fulfilling life. It all boils down to what makes a particular person happy and what their goals are in life.
I find it hard to imagine. But the world is full of strangeness, so who am I to decide what is and isn't possible for someone, especially if they claim that this is how they experience the world.
Interesting. It says, "An asexual is someone who does not experience sexual attraction. Unlike celibacy, which people choose, asexuality is an intrinsic part of who we are." (I added emphasis) For those who are not asexual, which is probably most people, is the choice not to act on sexual attractions/desires one that leads to unhappiness or lack of fulfillment?
Depends on a circumstance?
In general, happiness is a state of mind. As long as a person believes he/she is happy, he is happy, even if everyone around him/her cannot imagine themselves being happy in the same circumstances.
There is a long tradition of abstinence preceding a big competition/race/fight among top-level athletes in power sports. Obviously, those guys get happiness and fulfillment out of winning a medal, so temporary celibacy in this case must be worth it.
I can also see theoretically that there could be other circumstances where the energy not spent on sex could be channeled into other endeavors, like creating a masterpiece of art or some amazing scientific breakthrough. People who are focused single-mindedly on something could very well be happy without a distraction that sex would bring into their pursuit of whatever.
On the flip side, the multitude of sex scandals involving supposedly celibate-by-choice priests suggests that celibacy is rather intolerable to a human being with a sex drive. And do you think there are many celibate-by-choice primates out there?
I find it hard to imagine. But the world is full of strangeness, so who am I to decide what is and isn't possible for someone, especially if they claim that this is how they experience the world.
Interesting. It says, "An asexual is someone who does not experience sexual attraction. Unlike celibacy, which people choose, asexuality is an intrinsic part of who we are." (I added emphasis) For those who are not asexual, which is probably most people, is the choice not to act on sexual attractions/desires one that leads to unhappiness or lack of fulfillment?
Depends on a circumstance?
In general, happiness is a state of mind. As long as a person believes he/she is happy, he is happy, even if everyone around him/her cannot imagine themselves being happy in the same circumstances.
There is a long tradition of abstinence preceding a big competition/race/fight among top-level athletes in power sports. Obviously, those guys get happiness and fulfillment out of winning a medal, so temporary celibacy in this case must be worth it.
I can also see theoretically that there could be other circumstances where the energy not spent on sex could be channeled into other endeavors, like creating a masterpiece of art or some amazing scientific breakthrough. People who are focused single-mindedly on something could very well be happy without a distraction that sex would bring into their pursuit of whatever.
On the flip side, the multitude of sex scandals involving supposedly celibate-by-choice priests suggests that celibacy is rather intolerable to a human being with a sex drive. And do you think there are many celibate-by-choice primates out there?
"An intellectual is someone who has found something more interesting than sex". - can't remember author.
Recent medical research suggests that abstinence prior to an athletic competition doesn't do anything, but my own experience says the opposite. Sure, an orgasm or two can help you to relax and to keep a grip on your nerves, but (it seems to me) that you also run the risk of feeling too good, too satisfied; you risk losing that violent hunger driving you to push your body to the limit.
Priests who have sex with or sexually abuse others are, by definition, not celibate. Somebody who, conciously or unconsciously, diverts that same energy normally used for the sex drive into other endeavors (master craftsmen, advanced researchers, etc.) can of course lead a greatly satisfying life without sex.
Dec 6, 2011, 3:41 AM
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Re: [SylviaSmile] Is it possible to have a happy/fulfilled life without being sexually active?
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SylviaSmile wrote:
My sister and I were having a conversation over Thanksgiving, and this question arose. I thought I'd post a poll to see what a random cross-section of English speaking people think. :)
Post pictures of you and your sister and I can better help you answer the question.
Dec 6, 2011, 8:19 PM
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Re: [squierbypetzl] Is it possible to have a happy/fulfilled life without being sexually active?
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squierbypetzl wrote:
Priests who have sex with or sexually abuse others are, by definition, not celibate. Somebody who, conciously or unconsciously, diverts that same energy normally used for the sex drive into other endeavors (master craftsmen, advanced researchers, etc.) can of course lead a greatly satisfying life without sex.
This seems reasonable to me. I also wonder whether we tend to underestimate the ability of the human person to willingly abstain from sex, or whether it distorts relationships between the sexes to think of sex as an absolute need rather than a relative one. Taken to the extreme, you could see how monogamous relationships could be broken up if one of the parties were physically incapacitated or otherwise unable to have sex for an extended period and the partner were somehow "unable" to abstain for that long of a time. That would certainly be a rare case, but I guess my conversation with my sister caused me to muse about the emphasis that is placed on sex in our society. Judging from the poll results, it's a mixed bag!
Dec 7, 2011, 4:07 PM
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Re: [Toast_in_the_Machine] Is it possible to have a happy/fulfilled life without being sexually active?
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Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
SylviaSmile wrote:
Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
Yes - but why?
Why what?
Why be sexually inactive?
I suppose there could be a number of reasons. Here are some I can think of:
-For a time of physical healing for self/partner -To allow time for emotional/psychological healing (as from abuse) -For the sake of a career/personal endeavor--something like a trek to Antarctica or a trip on the space shuttle comes to mind -To avoid spreading a sexually transmitted disease -To avoid getting a sexually transmitted disease (as from one's partner) -For religious reasons -For other moral/ethical reasons, particularly in a situation or environment where one cannot find a suitable partner -Habitual disinterest, as lena_chita outlined with the asexuality website
Dec 7, 2011, 4:14 PM
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Re: [squierbypetzl] Is it possible to have a happy/fulfilled life without being sexually active?
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squierbypetzl wrote:
Priests who have sex with or sexually abuse others are, by definition, not celibate. Somebody who, conciously or unconsciously, diverts that same energy normally used for the sex drive into other endeavors (master craftsmen, advanced researchers, etc.) can of course lead a greatly satisfying life without sex.
Yes, of course.
But what I meant is that some of those priest who chose priesthood and celibacy that goes with it, are engaging in sexual activities (despite possible severe consequences) because the desire for it is stronger than any of the rules that prohibit it.
So having been brain-washed into it, and having every incentive to remain celibate, they still break the rule -- to me this indicates a pretty strong evidence that celibacy is biologically unnatural/hard to maintain for people who are deliberately suppressing a normal biological function, instead of not having that function in the first place, or channeling the energy into something else.
I don't really know how many of those non-celibate priests were going into priesthood with the plan to break the rules quietly, and how many were fully and wholeheartedly buying the whole celibacy thing, and then discovered that they could not abide it.
There is a difference between two scenarios:
scenario 1 -- pursuing whatever passion that is driving you, and discovering that there is no leftover room for sex in your life. => could be a happy fulfilled person, if he/she stops for long enough from their pursuit to reflect on such things.
scenario 2 -- taking sex off the table to begin with, and then saying, O.K., now pursue a happy fulfilling life. => probably not going to work for most people.
(This post was edited by lena_chita on Dec 7, 2011, 4:16 PM)
Dec 7, 2011, 4:28 PM
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Re: [lena_chita] Is it possible to have a happy/fulfilled life without being sexually active?
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lena_chita wrote:
squierbypetzl wrote:
Priests who have sex with or sexually abuse others are, by definition, not celibate. Somebody who, conciously or unconsciously, diverts that same energy normally used for the sex drive into other endeavors (master craftsmen, advanced researchers, etc.) can of course lead a greatly satisfying life without sex.
Yes, of course.
But what I meant is that some of those priest who chose priesthood and celibacy that goes with it, are engaging in sexual activities (despite possible severe consequences) because the desire for it is stronger than any of the rules that prohibit it.
So having been brain-washed into it, and having every incentive to remain celibate, they still break the rule -- to me this indicates a pretty strong evidence that celibacy is biologically unnatural/hard to maintain for people who are deliberately suppressing a normal biological function, instead of not having that function in the first place, or channeling the energy into something else.
I don't really know how many of those non-celibate priests were going into priesthood with the plan to break the rules quietly, and how many were fully and wholeheartedly buying the whole celibacy thing, and then discovered that they could not abide it.
There is a difference between two scenarios:
scenario 1 -- pursuing whatever passion that is driving you, and discovering that there is no leftover room for sex in your life. => could be a happy fulfilled person, if he/she stops for long enough from their pursuit to reflect on such things.
scenario 2 -- taking sex off the table to begin with, and then saying, O.K., now pursue a happy fulfilling life. => probably not going to work for most people.
I think that's true for a lot of things, though, not just sex. If you focus on the negative aspect of "giving up" anything, it just makes it harder to do, whereas if you embrace a positive vision that excludes what you are trying to give up, it's easier. So for me, if I decide I am going to avoid potato chips, that potato chips are bad and satan, it will quickly happen that potato chips are all I want--I will look longingly at them in the grocery store checkout, my resistance will wane when I go to the deli for a sandwich, until finally I am just really unhappy without potato chips in my life and so I cave and get a bag of delicious Cape Cod salt & vinegar . . . yummmm. On the other hand, if I can keep in my mind a positive vision of myself as a healthy, fit person, who puts only good and wholesome things inside of my body, it will naturally exclude junky foods though I'm not particularly focusing on potato chips or any other thing I'm giving up. I guess all that by way of agreeing that it is difficult, but also possible--though maybe not necessarily for everyone--to give up sex in a "scenario 1" type way, if you have a good reason.
Dec 7, 2011, 4:57 PM
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Re: [SylviaSmile] Is it possible to have a happy/fulfilled life without being sexually active?
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SylviaSmile wrote:
lena_chita wrote:
squierbypetzl wrote:
Priests who have sex with or sexually abuse others are, by definition, not celibate. Somebody who, conciously or unconsciously, diverts that same energy normally used for the sex drive into other endeavors (master craftsmen, advanced researchers, etc.) can of course lead a greatly satisfying life without sex.
Yes, of course.
But what I meant is that some of those priest who chose priesthood and celibacy that goes with it, are engaging in sexual activities (despite possible severe consequences) because the desire for it is stronger than any of the rules that prohibit it.
So having been brain-washed into it, and having every incentive to remain celibate, they still break the rule -- to me this indicates a pretty strong evidence that celibacy is biologically unnatural/hard to maintain for people who are deliberately suppressing a normal biological function, instead of not having that function in the first place, or channeling the energy into something else.
I don't really know how many of those non-celibate priests were going into priesthood with the plan to break the rules quietly, and how many were fully and wholeheartedly buying the whole celibacy thing, and then discovered that they could not abide it.
There is a difference between two scenarios:
scenario 1 -- pursuing whatever passion that is driving you, and discovering that there is no leftover room for sex in your life. => could be a happy fulfilled person, if he/she stops for long enough from their pursuit to reflect on such things.
scenario 2 -- taking sex off the table to begin with, and then saying, O.K., now pursue a happy fulfilling life. => probably not going to work for most people.
I think that's true for a lot of things, though, not just sex. If you focus on the negative aspect of "giving up" anything, it just makes it harder to do, whereas if you embrace a positive vision that excludes what you are trying to give up, it's easier. So for me, if I decide I am going to avoid potato chips, that potato chips are bad and satan, it will quickly happen that potato chips are all I want--I will look longingly at them in the grocery store checkout, my resistance will wane when I go to the deli for a sandwich, until finally I am just really unhappy without potato chips in my life and so I cave and get a bag of delicious Cape Cod salt & vinegar . . . yummmm. On the other hand, if I can keep in my mind a positive vision of myself as a healthy, fit person, who puts only good and wholesome things inside of my body, it will naturally exclude junky foods though I'm not particularly focusing on potato chips or any other thing I'm giving up. I guess all that by way of agreeing that it is difficult, but also possible--though maybe not necessarily for everyone--to give up sex in a "scenario 1" type way, if you have a good reason.
I don't know what is going on in your life, but I don't really think it is a good analogy to say that sex is like junk food. Nobody "needs" junk food, though people like to have it in some amount, but in case of sex I do believe that normal people "need" it, unless they are so spent that they have no energy left for it.
In my "scenario type 1" you don't start out with "O.K., I am going to give up sex because I have a goal of achieving something and I think sex will get in the way". Which is how it works if you say "I am going to limit junk food in order to lose weight".
In "scenario type 1", I am thinking something like "I am going to run a marathon" (or climb Everest, or hike to South Pole, or whatever). This leads to something like:"O.K., this week I need to run 3 miles on Mon-Wed, 5 miles on Thursday after work, then do a 10-mile run on Saturday, and rest on Sunday", etc. etc. And maybe as a result of doing all that and thinking about your run times and all the planning and excitement and tiredness you go from having sex constantly on your mind, to not really thinking about it much...
But having less sex drive is an effect in this case, and not something you start with as a pre-requisite. It is NOT "O.K., I am giving up sex for the next 6 months because I want to train for marathon, and I really want to run a marathon, so every time I think about sex I'm going to remind myself that my goal of running a marathon is worth not having sex."
Dec 7, 2011, 5:12 PM
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Re: [lena_chita] Is it possible to have a happy/fulfilled life without being sexually active?
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lena_chita wrote:
SylviaSmile wrote:
lena_chita wrote:
squierbypetzl wrote:
Priests who have sex with or sexually abuse others are, by definition, not celibate. Somebody who, conciously or unconsciously, diverts that same energy normally used for the sex drive into other endeavors (master craftsmen, advanced researchers, etc.) can of course lead a greatly satisfying life without sex.
Yes, of course.
But what I meant is that some of those priest who chose priesthood and celibacy that goes with it, are engaging in sexual activities (despite possible severe consequences) because the desire for it is stronger than any of the rules that prohibit it.
So having been brain-washed into it, and having every incentive to remain celibate, they still break the rule -- to me this indicates a pretty strong evidence that celibacy is biologically unnatural/hard to maintain for people who are deliberately suppressing a normal biological function, instead of not having that function in the first place, or channeling the energy into something else.
I don't really know how many of those non-celibate priests were going into priesthood with the plan to break the rules quietly, and how many were fully and wholeheartedly buying the whole celibacy thing, and then discovered that they could not abide it.
There is a difference between two scenarios:
scenario 1 -- pursuing whatever passion that is driving you, and discovering that there is no leftover room for sex in your life. => could be a happy fulfilled person, if he/she stops for long enough from their pursuit to reflect on such things.
scenario 2 -- taking sex off the table to begin with, and then saying, O.K., now pursue a happy fulfilling life. => probably not going to work for most people.
I think that's true for a lot of things, though, not just sex. If you focus on the negative aspect of "giving up" anything, it just makes it harder to do, whereas if you embrace a positive vision that excludes what you are trying to give up, it's easier. So for me, if I decide I am going to avoid potato chips, that potato chips are bad and satan, it will quickly happen that potato chips are all I want--I will look longingly at them in the grocery store checkout, my resistance will wane when I go to the deli for a sandwich, until finally I am just really unhappy without potato chips in my life and so I cave and get a bag of delicious Cape Cod salt & vinegar . . . yummmm. On the other hand, if I can keep in my mind a positive vision of myself as a healthy, fit person, who puts only good and wholesome things inside of my body, it will naturally exclude junky foods though I'm not particularly focusing on potato chips or any other thing I'm giving up. I guess all that by way of agreeing that it is difficult, but also possible--though maybe not necessarily for everyone--to give up sex in a "scenario 1" type way, if you have a good reason.
I don't know what is going on in your life, but I don't really think it is a good analogy to say that sex is like junk food. Nobody "needs" junk food, though people like to have it in some amount, but in case of sex I do believe that normal people "need" it, unless they are so spent that they have no energy left for it.
In my "scenario type 1" you don't start out with "O.K., I am going to give up sex because I have a goal of achieving something and I think sex will get in the way". Which is how it works if you say "I am going to limit junk food in order to lose weight".
In "scenario type 1", I am thinking something like "I am going to run a marathon" (or climb Everest, or hike to South Pole, or whatever). This leads to something like:"O.K., this week I need to run 3 miles on Mon-Wed, 5 miles on Thursday after work, then do a 10-mile run on Saturday, and rest on Sunday", etc. etc. And maybe as a result of doing all that and thinking about your run times and all the planning and excitement and tiredness you go from having sex constantly on your mind, to not really thinking about it much...
But having less sex drive is an effect in this case, and not something you start with as a pre-requisite. It is NOT "O.K., I am giving up sex for the next 6 months because I want to train for marathon, and I really want to run a marathon, so every time I think about sex I'm going to remind myself that my goal of running a marathon is worth not having sex."
Do you see the distinction?
Yeah, I hesitated over that analogy, because it does break down in several respects. I guess I was thinking, though, that the Scenario 1 goal lined up with "I am going to become healthy and cook/eat healthy foods" or something along that line. But it seems like in your distinction, sex doesn't play into the outcome of the marathon training in the same way that junk food vs. health food does: you could probably run a marathon and also remain sexually active. So why not do both? I'm not saying you can just trick yourself into giving something up by framing it in a positive way, but don't you think on some level you can know from the outset that a goal/endeavor you choose will exclude something else from your life? Is it more Scenario 1 or Scenario 2 if you make such a choice?
Dec 7, 2011, 5:51 PM
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Re: [SylviaSmile] Is it possible to have a happy/fulfilled life without being sexually active?
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SylviaSmile wrote:
Yeah, I hesitated over that analogy, because it does break down in several respects. I guess I was thinking, though, that the Scenario 1 goal lined up with "I am going to become healthy and cook/eat healthy foods" or something along that line. But it seems like in your distinction, sex doesn't play into the outcome of the marathon training in the same way that junk food vs. health food does: you could probably run a marathon and also remain sexually active. So why not do both?
No reason not to, and I am sure most people manage to do both. But occasionally someone might become so wrapped up in the goal that there is no room for sex, at least for a period of time, and sex is not even being missed. This is my 'scenario 1'.
SylviaSmile wrote:
I'm not saying you can just trick yourself into giving something up by framing it in a positive way, but don't you think on some level you can know from the outset that a goal/endeavor you choose will exclude something else from your life? Is it more Scenario 1 or Scenario 2 if you make such a choice?
Yes, you often know from the start that your choice will have an effect, but I don't think this switches scenario 1 into scenario 2.
An example I am thinking of is having kids. I guess everyone understands that if you decide to have a baby, it will put a major disruption in your sex life for a while. That it is very likely that both partners might be too tired to have sex when they get no sleep. Or even if tiredness is not an issue there will be other changes, anything from 'baby in the room ruins the mood, shhhh, gotta be quiet' to "don't leave your set of whips and handcuffs where kids will see them, do take the harness off the ceiling hook, and unplug that electroshocker".
But when someone decides to have a baby they are not thinking "I am willing to give up sex after baby comes, because baby will be worth it". They just go with the flow, and try to get that sex thing going again, with whatever adjustments they have to make, and most people seem quite able to do it.
I am having a really hard time picturing any scenario where you HAVE to completely give up sex in order to accomplish the goal. I can come up with scenarios that take you away from your partner for significant length of time. But I don't see that as celibacy, even if you end up not having sex with another person in that time period, because you still have your hands, and there is nothing stopping you from having phone sex with the partner you left behind or using sex toys to achieve orgasm. To me celibacy implies no sexual release of any kind, be it with another person or by your lonesome self. A guy who is jerking off to some internet porn every night may not be in a relationship, but he is being sexually active, and not celibate, IMO.
Dec 8, 2011, 12:37 PM
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Re: [SylviaSmile] Is it possible to have a happy/fulfilled life without being sexually active?
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SylviaSmile wrote:
Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
SylviaSmile wrote:
Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
Yes - but why?
Why what?
Why be sexually inactive?
I suppose there could be a number of reasons. Here are some I can think of:
-For a time of physical healing for self/partner -To allow time for emotional/psychological healing (as from abuse) -For the sake of a career/personal endeavor--something like a trek to Antarctica or a trip on the space shuttle comes to mind -To avoid spreading a sexually transmitted disease -To avoid getting a sexually transmitted disease (as from one's partner) -For religious reasons -For other moral/ethical reasons, particularly in a situation or environment where one cannot find a suitable partner -Habitual disinterest, as lena_chita outlined with the asexuality website
Maybe there are others?
All except "religious reasons" or being asexual are temporary parts of life. To presuppose that a human can not go for a while without sex and still be happy is nonsensical. No one has sex all of the time, so of course there are times in everyone’s life without sex. To be asexual is to be asexual; of course someone can be happy that way.
Which leaves "religious reasons" as the only one you listed for having a happy / fulfilled life (whole life, not just part of the time) without being sexually active that is a choice. (We could draw a theoretical extreme out of the abuse, disease, physical healing, but why go down that path?)
Which leads back to why? Why choose to have an entire life without sex?