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donwanadi
Dec 28, 2011, 9:34 PM
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I recently saw a movie depicting some of the first attempts to climb the north face of Eiger. Throughout, the climbers were secured by tying directly into the end of the rope as shown in the below link.
http://www.imdb.com/...3338373376/tt0844457
What is the name of this technique? More info?
Thanks
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jt512
Dec 28, 2011, 10:45 PM
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donwanadi wrote: I recently saw a movie depicting some of the first attempts to climb the north face of Eiger. Throughout, the climbers were secured by tying directly into the end of the rope as shown in the below link. http://www.imdb.com/...3338373376/tt0844457 What is the name of this technique?
I've heard it called "tying the rope around your waist."
Try googling "bowline on a coil."
Jay
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billl7
Dec 28, 2011, 10:58 PM
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It looks unfamiliar to me although I'm far from experienced with techniques back then (i.e., true to the time). Still, it looks more like a chest harness than anything else.
Could it simply be something rigged to look appealing to the largely non-climbing audience?
Bill L
(This post was edited by billl7 on Dec 28, 2011, 11:04 PM)
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donwanadi
Dec 28, 2011, 11:55 PM
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Doesn't appear to be the same. In the move there is a strand under and over each arm and presumably crOssed in the back, like a chest harness.
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donwanadi
Dec 28, 2011, 11:58 PM
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That could very well be.
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rgold
Dec 29, 2011, 12:00 AM
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A picture of Hinterstoisser and Kurz I found on the internet suggests they didn't tie in that way, but rather used a bowline or bowline on a coil (2 strands) around the waist.
Using a chest-level tie-in was very common in Europe for a long time, however. The advantage was that the climber didn't turn upside down in a fall, but the chest location constricted breathing and was not good for aid climbing.
I do think the movie aimed for some historical accuracy, so it is quite possible that many climbers of that era tied in as depicted. Easy to do with a bowline on a coil.
In the U.S. people were tying in with a bowline or bowline on a coil around the waist when I started climbing in the late fifties, although about that time swami belts became the norm.
Edit: I think, in the picture, they are climbing with double ropes. If so, then the double strands I thought I saw on their waists are not from a bowline on a coil, but rather from tying into each strand with a single bowline.
Double rope technique was needed for early "tension" climbing, an incredibly strenuous approach to direct aid using no stirrups. The climber used whatever holds the rock provided, placed a piton, and was held in place at that piton with tension from the belayer while reaching higher to place another piton. The double ropes were necessary so that the climber could continue to be held in place on the lower piton while pulling up slack to clip the upper piton.
(This post was edited by rgold on Dec 29, 2011, 1:19 AM)
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billl7
Dec 29, 2011, 1:59 AM
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rgold wrote: In the U.S. people were tying in with a bowline or bowline on a coil around the waist when I started climbing in the late fifties, although about that time swami belts became the norm.
My first experience with "tying in" was in 1977. We used a swami belt then although this was for glacier travel.
rgold wrote: Double rope technique was needed for early "tension" climbing, an incredibly strenuous approach to direct aid using no stirrups. The climber used whatever holds the rock provided, placed a piton, and was held in place at that piton with tension from the belayer while reaching higher to place another piton. The double ropes were necessary so that the climber could continue to be held in place on the lower piton while pulling up slack to clip the upper piton.
Not having done this, my guess would be that it was "incredibly strenuous" for the hip belayer. Hip belaying with double ropes - having a hard time getting my brain around that.
Bill L
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healyje
Dec 30, 2011, 10:14 AM
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Funky, but I've seen other old photos of chest tie-ins.
I started climbing '74 and we were using a bowline on a coil with goldline. Later we would do a swami out of 1" webbing or, once we had kermantle ropes, just made a swami with the end of the rope.
It all worked fine and I still do it occasionally if I forget my harness.
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