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ACLSRN
Jul 6, 2011, 4:06 PM
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Can someone explain to me why a Daisey Chain is used for Big Wall Climbing, etc? I always thought that the climber/belayer anchors themselves directly via the rope itself to the wall, etc.
???
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j_ung
Jul 6, 2011, 4:45 PM
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Correct use of a daisy chain has nothing to do with big wall climbing, and everything to do with aid climbing. You're correct that when anchoring, you shouldn't use daisies... or at least not only daisies.
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ACLSRN
Jul 6, 2011, 5:06 PM
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j_ung wrote: Correct use of a daisy chain has nothing to do with big wall climbing, and everything to do with aid climbing. You're correct that when anchoring, you shouldn't use daisies... or at least not only daisies.
Well , whats what I thought until I recently saw a pic posted of a climber sitting on a ledge using one to anchor himself to his belay anchor along with the rope.
I used to use one many years ago when caving for ascending fixed static rope after descending into a cave system to connect myself and my Clog ascenders to the rope, etc - but didn't think anyone used one other than in aid climbing, etc.
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cracklover
Jul 6, 2011, 5:10 PM
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ACLSRN wrote: Can someone explain to me why a Daisey Chain is used for Big Wall Climbing, etc? I always thought that the climber/belayer anchors themselves directly via the rope itself to the wall, etc. ???
To attach yourself to the piece.
That was easy, eh?
GO
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cracklover
Jul 6, 2011, 5:13 PM
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ACLSRN wrote: j_ung wrote: Correct use of a daisy chain has nothing to do with big wall climbing, and everything to do with aid climbing. You're correct that when anchoring, you shouldn't use daisies... or at least not only daisies. Well , whats what I thought until I recently saw a pic posted of a climber sitting on a ledge using one to anchor himself to his belay anchor along with the rope. I used to use one many years ago when caving for ascending fixed static rope after descending into a cave system to connect myself and my Clog ascenders to the rope, etc - but didn't think anyone used one other than in aid climbing, etc.
In that situation, the climber uses it to attach to the anchor. Usually in conjunction with the rope. In that situation it has nothing to do with big wall or aid.
Also straightforward, no?
What exactly are you trying to understand?
GO
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ACLSRN
Jul 6, 2011, 5:27 PM
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cracklover wrote: ACLSRN wrote: j_ung wrote: Correct use of a daisy chain has nothing to do with big wall climbing, and everything to do with aid climbing. You're correct that when anchoring, you shouldn't use daisies... or at least not only daisies. Well , whats what I thought until I recently saw a pic posted of a climber sitting on a ledge using one to anchor himself to his belay anchor along with the rope. I used to use one many years ago when caving for ascending fixed static rope after descending into a cave system to connect myself and my Clog ascenders to the rope, etc - but didn't think anyone used one other than in aid climbing, etc. In that situation, the climber uses it to attach to the anchor. Usually in conjunction with the rope. In that situation it has nothing to do with big wall or aid. Also straightforward, no? What exactly are you trying to understand? GO
WHY the need for it instead of just anchoring via the rope itself? Doesn't adding a Daisy chain just add another pc of unnecessary gear when you already have a rope to anchor in with? Why add a separate pc of gear and another 'potential' point of failure, etc?
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csproul
Jul 6, 2011, 5:36 PM
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Outside of aid climbing, there is no need for a daisy chain. But that doesn't stop people from using them anyway. Some people like the (perceived) convenience of clipping in with them. This is usually done while cleaning anchors, at rap anchors, or used to clip in before tying off with the rope at belays.
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ACLSRN
Jul 6, 2011, 5:46 PM
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csproul wrote: Outside of aid climbing, there is no need for a daisy chain. But that doesn't stop people from using them anyway. Some people like the (perceived) convenience of clipping in with them. This is usually done while cleaning anchors, at rap anchors, or used to clip in before tying off with the rope at belays.
OK - that makes sense to me....thanks for the answer!
Mucho Gracias
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potreroed
Aug 16, 2011, 3:53 AM
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In aid climbing the daisies are also clipped to your aiders to prevent accidentally dropping them.
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donwanadi
Jan 13, 2012, 3:32 PM
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What does it help you do when you are actually climbing up the aiders? It seems like it's just introducing something static to fall on and hurt yourself.
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csproul
Jan 13, 2012, 3:54 PM
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donwanadi wrote: What does it help you do when you are actually climbing up the aiders? It seems like it's just introducing something static to fall on and hurt yourself.
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donwanadi
Jan 13, 2012, 4:17 PM
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Perhaps a better question then would be, 'How do you avoid a dangerous static fall onto a daisy'? I would think a 3-4' fall onto a daisy would do some serious internal damage, no?
(This post was edited by donwanadi on Jan 13, 2012, 4:19 PM)
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csproul
Jan 13, 2012, 4:28 PM
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donwanadi wrote: Perhaps a better question then would be, 'How do you avoid a dangerous static fall onto a daisy'? I would think a 3-4' fall onto a daisy would do some serious internal damage, no?
Using kind of the "standard aiding" method, it is always a possibility. When testing the next piece, you are generally still daisied into the current piece, so if the piece you're testing blows you will fall onto the daisy. I like the leg bounce test for this reason, I get to keep one foot on the good piece that I am standing on, so if the test pulls the piece, I can still catch myself standing on the good piece. As soon as you commit to the high piece, you want to unclip your daisy from the last piece and clip the rope into it. This will help minimize the possibility of a daisy fall. I have taken short daisy falls, and honestly, it wasn't that bad.
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cracklover
Jan 13, 2012, 4:57 PM
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donwanadi wrote: What does it help you do when you are actually climbing up the aiders? It seems like it's just introducing something static to fall on and hurt yourself.
Already answered:
cracklover wrote: ACLSRN wrote: Can someone explain to me why a Daisey Chain is used for Big Wall Climbing, etc? I always thought that the climber/belayer anchors themselves directly via the rope itself to the wall, etc. ??? To attach yourself to the piece. That was easy, eh? GO
Now I have a question for you:
Why dig up an old thread to ask a question already answered in the thread itself?
Edited to add - I see, because you really wanted to ask a different question: In reply to: Perhaps a better question then would be, 'How do you avoid a dangerous static fall onto a daisy'? I would think a 3-4' fall onto a daisy would do some serious internal damage, no?
Fair enough. Hope my answer helped.
GO
(This post was edited by cracklover on Jan 13, 2012, 5:24 PM)
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csproul
Jan 13, 2012, 5:33 PM
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cracklover wrote: csproul wrote: I have taken short daisy falls, and honestly, it wasn't that bad. Don't count on your next short daisy fall being "not that bad". I was belaying a girl who slipped out of her aiders and took around a 1 foot fall onto her daisies. Blew two pockets on the daisy and effed up her back pretty good. GO
Just saw you post above...and that is pretty much what I do. Either 1) get onto the high piece and unclip the daisy (and clip in the rope) from the last one, or 2) keep a hand/foot on the low piece while bounce testing the higher piece. On easy aid, however, I rarely find real vigorous bounce testing all that necessary.
(This post was edited by csproul on Jan 13, 2012, 5:41 PM)
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cracklover
Jan 13, 2012, 6:12 PM
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csproul wrote: cracklover wrote: csproul wrote: I have taken short daisy falls, and honestly, it wasn't that bad. Don't count on your next short daisy fall being "not that bad". I was belaying a girl who slipped out of her aiders and took around a 1 foot fall onto her daisies. Blew two pockets on the daisy and effed up her back pretty good. GO I agree, and I try to do everything I can to avoid it . I just have not worked out a method for aiding that completely eliminates the possibility. But it is not necessarily the death sentence that everyone makes them out to be. I've got pretty limited aid experience, so if you know of a method to completely avoid them, I'd love to hear it.
Nah, there's always a chance. But with a good method I think you have to screw up or be really unlucky for it to happen.
GO
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USnavy
Jan 15, 2012, 9:31 AM
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cracklover wrote: csproul wrote: I have taken short daisy falls, and honestly, it wasn't that bad. Don't count on your next short daisy fall being "not that bad". I was belaying a girl who slipped out of her aiders and took around a 1 foot fall onto her daisies. Blew two pockets on the daisy and effed up her back pretty good. GO
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