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jagster
Jan 20, 2012, 8:01 PM
Post #1 of 3
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Registered: Jan 20, 2012
Posts: 15
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hi there.
The norm is for leader to take 1 lead line and 1 haul line. At the belay tie off lead line and commence hauling, meanwhile second jummars lead line cleaning as he goes. protecting himself say with a gri gri as well.
My question;
What if the lead line snaps on a sharp edge, very rare but has and could happen. climber would fall to death.
has anyone ever second using
A 3rd line for the gri gri
B tied haul line in short leaving 10 meters for second to tie into
both would then protect a snaped lead line.
Any thoughts would be welcome. i ask because i do loads of caving and we never let the rope touch any rock, if it does we tie it of to create a reblay. thus no rope rubbing.
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USnavy
Jan 21, 2012, 11:45 AM
Post #2 of 3
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Registered: Nov 6, 2007
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Yes, rope failure from abrasion is a serious risk, but there are solutions. First, to answer your question, no I have never heard of a second using a secondary rope for redundancy, at least not on an entire wall. Three ropes is a hell of a lot of weight to lead with when you stack on a full aid rack, hauler, jumars, ect. Rather than hauling up a third rope I would concentrate more on how to protect yourself from rope failure due to abrasion.
- The leader must always be extremely aware of where the rope runs when he is clipping gear. He must exercise extreme caution to make sure its not running over a sharp edge or over very rough rock where excessive abrasion can occur. If its impossible to run the rope over an edge, put duck tape on the rock, and if need be, the rope to reduce abrasion. This is actually a somewhat common tactic on El Cap, there is duck tape all over the place on the Nose.
- Use thick ropes, 10.5mm or 11mm if you are really concerned. Thicker ropes greatly decrease the risk of rope failure due to abrasion when compared to thin ropes.
- Use lower elongation dynamic ropes. This one is kind of a catch-22 issue because a low elongation rope will decrease the risk to the second, but increase the risk to the leader (in many cases anyway). Lower elongation ropes will produce a higher impact force on the top piece which will increase the chance the leader will take a big whip if he falls on thin gear. A higher elongation rope will reduce that risk in most cases. However a lower elongation rope will reduce the risk to the second because it will stretch less over sharp corners, thus reducing abrasion and the "sawing" effect that occurs when a loaded rope that is running over an abrasive edge.
- Try not to bounce when jugging a rope running over questionable rock. The more delicate you are in your movements the less the rope will move over a sharp edge.
- Always tie into both jumars and back yourself up with a GriGri. If at anytime you have to do something that involves removing part of your belay (such as passing a knot on rappel), always tie in short to the rope with a figure eight or clove hitch and a locking biner. That way if you really mess it up, you dont get the chop.
The ideas you expressed above would work to some extent. You could tie the bags to 10m mark on your haul line and tie into the remaining tail. But realistically, I would only do that if there is a serious risk on the pitch your climbing. Its generally best to try to keep things as simple as possible on a wall as everything is already overcomplicated.
(This post was edited by USnavy on Jan 21, 2012, 11:47 AM)
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jagster
Jan 21, 2012, 12:53 PM
Post #3 of 3
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Registered: Jan 20, 2012
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Thanks usnavy, its as much as i thought really, keeping things simple is always best. the thought of the rope failing sends shivers down me spine .
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