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mchatz13
Dec 20, 2002, 8:21 PM
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Can anyone suggest a shell and fleece liner that fits well and is priced between 3-4 hundred dollars? or am I dreaming?
thanks
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jhump
Dec 20, 2002, 8:32 PM
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not dreaming, get windproof/water resistant shell, old navy fleece= $150 total. Just as good as more expensive brands, breathes better.
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mikedano
Dec 20, 2002, 8:36 PM
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Holy moly if you're willing to spend $400 you can pretty much have your pick of the best. Unless you're shopping in Aspen.
My advice:
Don't shop for brand names. Just get a shell that has a waterproof, breathable membrain (not a coating, which can wash off). I have a very nice $200 Marmot jacket with Gortex. And don't worry if it has a zip in fleece or not. You can just buy a separate fleece (they can be as cheap as $20-30) and wear it underneath. Read "freedom of the hills" for more layering details.
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elvislegs
Dec 20, 2002, 9:52 PM
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A lot of people are ditching the thought that they need a WTRPRF / BRTHBL shell, because most of them are truly not either. Instead going with one of the new soft shells. The idea being that you will be wet no matter, and the softshell will keep you warm while wet. Just a thought.
Personally I wear base layer / fleece etc. most of the climb and only put anything else on when I am not moving. Works well. There are a miriad of shells and fleece out there for the price range you mentioned.
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sonso45
Dec 20, 2002, 10:03 PM
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I have used a cheaper nylon jacket for years with chheap fleece under. I was uncomfortable but survived forced bivvies in cold wet. Spend less than $150, unless it is for ice then go for $400.
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tanner
Dec 20, 2002, 10:42 PM
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Get a soft shell such as the Arcteryx Gama SV Really light highly breathable wind and water resistant it holds out 40mph of wind and about .5-1 psi of H20 that means you will be dry in a rain storm but if you are have back pack staps it will wet out or if you sit down on it it will wet out. Its also not seem taped so you may bet some water coming through at the seems. Then get some light shell jacket that breaths and use that if the weather gets sick. The best would be the Alfa sv jacket and the gamma sv soft shell but thats expensive.
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vulgarian
Dec 20, 2002, 10:55 PM
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Personally, I hate brand-names but here goes an admission. About nine years ago I paid $350 for a North Face "Mountain Light Jacket". It saw a ton of duty and always performed really good. Bullsh*t to anyone who says they don't. I recently took this, very worn, jacket back to the local TNF store because the Gortex was delaminating. I did it as more of a "shot-in-dark" kind of thing to see what they would do. Robert a sales associate looked at it and stated flatly "that they probably couldn't fix this and would more than likely send you a new one"
What I got back was a new (current model) jacket. To make the deal sweeter, they let me upgrade to the "Fountain Head" (a lighter, stretch model) by just paying the difference for an upgrade.
The bottom line is: that this is the best money on a product that I've ever spent.
[ This Message was edited by: vulgarian on 2002-12-20 15:05 ]
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tim
Dec 20, 2002, 11:09 PM
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yeah if you can afford Patagucci or North Face they will usually take care of you as a customer, I had a pair of Torre pants and a pair of Talus pants that I tore the $#!& out of on a regular basis (crampon gouges in the Torres, abrasion on the Talus pants), kept taking them over to the Patagonia store in SF for repairs, and they'd cheerfully patch them up and send them back for the cost of shipping... they's good people, mostly.
But I picked up a Mammut shell made out of the weird laminated Schoeller W/B stuff for $170 recently and based on the pants, I expect to be pounding the crap out of that for 5-7 years, so that should amortize out to a decently cheap sum.
My favorite alpine piece is a Illuminite shell I bought from Performance Bicycle for $30 on sale. It reflects light, weighs almost nothing, packs up the size of a lemon, fits in my Camelbak or harness pouch, is waterproof, and has big mesh vents under the armpits. For 90% and more of the climbing I do, it's all I need or want, combined with my Schoeller pants and a light-colored long underwear top (works year-round from Needles to Willoughby). So, YMMV.
I'll bet you could save $200-300 of those $300-400 you're spending, if you put your mind to it.
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topher
Dec 20, 2002, 11:47 PM
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i have a moonstone jacket, its streches and its so dam water proof, and even more breathable. i would recomend this jacket. as for a fleece, cheapest way is go to old fabric store and get a momther/gf or your self to make your own.
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redpoint73
Dec 20, 2002, 11:50 PM
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You can buy an awesome set for much less than 400 bucks. Sierra Designs has very reasonably priced shells, and I think one model with a removable liner. You can get the Peak Bagger for $90 on reioutlet.com, last I checked (last years model). Totally water proof, super light, and great for stuffing in your pack or hip-sack for multi-pitch climbs. Kept me dry on many rainy days. I even wear it skiing and ice climbing. Only thing, the DWR seemed ot wear away really fast, but you can get some Tectron spary or similar product. You don't have to buy Gore-Tex to get a great waterproof breathable product. You are mostly paying for the LICENSE and THE NAME. SD Genesis is cheap, waterproof and breathable. Marmot Membrain is a great material as well.
Do you really need a fleece "liner"?. It much better to just buy a fleece jacket that you like. Windstopper or similar product is preferable in a fleece. If you wear it alone, the wind will cut through it like it wasn't even there, if it is "regular" fleece. I will never buy a "standard" fleece jacket ever again.
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gooch
Dec 21, 2002, 12:12 AM
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www.mec.ca
They make good stuff, goretex xcr and the likes for about %40 less than the big name stuff
If you want the best though, Arteryx
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redpoint73
Dec 21, 2002, 12:18 AM
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Is Arcteryx stuff really worth the $$$? It looks really nice. But, their stuff seems ridiculous expensive. Even more expensive than Patagonia (who uses pretty cheap stuff -- zippers, snaps, etc. -- considering how pricey their stuff is).
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heelhooker
Dec 21, 2002, 12:21 AM
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i've had alot of fleece.... cheap and expensive.... and i love nothing more than my Windstopper fleece vest. someday i'll get a light Windstopper jacket/sweater too.
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tradklime
Dec 21, 2002, 12:37 AM
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Check out Pearl Izumi. All there stuff is designed to breath well, wick moisture, and everthing is athletic cut. It's great for climbing to have something without a bunch of excess fabric to get in the way. The "event" WB fabric is incredibly breathable. They also usually incorporate stretch panels and are extremely light weight. Fantistic quality and finish.
I can't say enough good things. They don't just make clothes for biking any more.
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dirko
Dec 21, 2002, 12:53 AM
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What you need, my friend, is the Marmot Pre-cip jacket mated to the Patagonia R2 fleece. It's waterproof and will be warm. Total: $220. They are both great pieces.
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gooch
Dec 22, 2002, 11:56 PM
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Arcteryx is the best IMO
Best zippers,fabrics, weaves, welds etc..
They lead the way with inovation
Costs tons, but gauranteed for life
Finding just one jacket to do everything is tough though as they can get pretty specific
Ie. Alpine, Ice, Long Alpine, Expeditions, I would have differnet jackets for each $$
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jhattan
Dec 24, 2002, 1:22 PM
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Good call dirko! A lot of people are using the Precip as their only WP/B shell for 4 season use. It functions for what you need it for, breathable protection from wet weather. How often is it really wet enough to require a WP/B shell? Yes, you will need it, but not 90% of the time. Supplement the R2 that dirko suggested with a light windshirt or beefier soft shell (depending on conditions) and you have yourself a decent, lightweight and very versitile system. Why pay big bucks for a Goretex jacket with features that just add weight when that jacket will just sit in your pack most of the time. Another option is the Red Ledge Thunderlight Parka avaliable at campmor.com for $50. WP/B and only weights 13 oz! (Note: the hood won't fit over a helmet though)
A good piece of reading is Mark Twight's Extreme Alpinism. He does a lot to debunk the marketing hype and myths surrounding Goretex and other WP/B wear.
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arp30
Jan 7, 2003, 8:37 PM
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Just remember to get a shell that is about one size larger than you would usually wear to compensate for layering. I have a TNF Denali jacket and I just love it. It has a tall neck with wind patches in the chest back and neck. For that price range you can pretty much get the best stuff out there...but you can spend much less for the same quality.
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drector
Jan 7, 2003, 8:49 PM
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I have a Patagonia R4 fleece and another fleece that is similar to the R2. The R4 is way warmer. It sucks but $ always seems to be important getting me what I need. Don't skimp on price if it is close to your range.
I have a $380 Patagonia shell, Can't remember the name, but I wear it when shoveling snow while it's snowing and it just doesn't get wet. My ski jacket gets soaked in the same conditions (hours of shoveling).
Sorry I can't be any more help for the price range you are asking about since the fleece and shell added up to closer to $600. I've certainly never regretted spending more on this type of equipment.
Dave
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crack_head
Jan 7, 2003, 8:59 PM
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check out sites like www.sierratradingpost.com
www.rei-outlet.com
PM me if you can find anything good at these sites. im sure that you will though, check out sierratradingpost firts they have old styles, blems, closeouts, etc. you can really find some great deals there!
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sspssp
Jan 7, 2003, 9:03 PM
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I have the precip jacket and I have no complaints but it has pretty much stayed inside the pack.
jhatten mentions people using this as a four season jacket. Anyone out there have experience with this? I was thinking of taking it as my only shell into the Sierras this summer. How well does it hold up in a long rain and if you hike with it while wearing a backpack, how quickly do you wear the shoulders out? Anybody?
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crack_head
Jan 7, 2003, 9:04 PM
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i just checked both of those site and you should easily be able to find a high end shell and fleece for under $250 PM me and tell me what you are thinking about buying if you need any advice
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mchatz13
Jan 15, 2003, 1:29 PM
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So I picked up a shell last night "Marmot Pinnacle Ice Jacket" ($299.00). It fits better than any jacket I have ever worn and should do the job. Now I need to find a heavyweight fleece for the lining. Thinking about an EMS Summit jacket that is rather inexpensive. Thanks for the advice.
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jhump
Jan 15, 2003, 4:57 PM
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I avoid fleece for many reasons. Layering fleece feels like wearing a giant ace bandage. It's heavy, too hot usually, non compressable. If you do get fleece, avoid abrasion patches, zippers, etc. Just get a close fitting fleece like powerstretch. Instead of fleece, I recommend a windshirt, like the Marmot Driclime, EMS Windshear, Wildthings. These will insulate better than fleece due to windproofness, and lite poly liner. Windshirts are also slippery, so they lube the other layers in your system, thus avoiding the ace bandage effect. Windshirts are also lighter and more compressable than fleece, but don't worry about that because you will never take it off to put it in your pack.
Jeremy
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bsperes
Jan 15, 2003, 5:38 PM
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Arcteryx is worth the $$.
Mec.ca is no good for us in the states or anywhere outside CA for that matter.
Theta AR shell plus capilene equals awesome. I can fit my Delta Shearling AR under the Theta and it is a bit bulky, but doable.
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