I have to say, some of the arguments against the route being chopped are pretty weak.

One of the most common reactions that I've seen in the comments on these news articles is "the route is historical so it should stay" - well using that logic you could argue that taking rash action without consensus is part of the Patagonian climbing tradition. History is made all the time, just because something happened doesn't mean it can't be changed or revisited.

Rolo's supertopo thread about this is a kick if you have about a day to wade through it. Even though consensus is impossible, big names from the past like Carlos Comesaña and Leo Dickinson weigh in with well-thought-out posts, making the thread a little piece of climbing history. I was also surprised how many butthurt Italians showed up.

I have to say, some of the arguments against the route being chopped are pretty weak.

One of the most common reactions that I've seen in the comments on these news articles is "the route is historical so it should stay" - well using that logic you could argue that taking rash action without consensus is part of the Patagonian climbing tradition. History is made all the time, just because something happened doesn't mean it can't be changed or revisited.

is Lama's climb that much more pure and impressive without the bolts?

edit:

photos of bolt mess
scroll down to the 5th and 6th photo

Rolo's supertopo thread about this is a kick if you have about a day to wade through it. Even though consensus is impossible, big names from the past like Carlos Comesaña and Leo Dickinson weigh in with well-thought-out posts, making the thread a little piece of climbing history. I was also surprised how many butthurt Italians showed up.

Maestri was a hell of a climber

Lives may have been saved by this.

I'm not sure what you're saying? Apparently Lama didn't clip any bolts.

yeah, that didn't make any sense. what i meant to say is, Lama's climb was way more impressive without "compressor" bolts. he was fortunate to have had route prep. by jason and hayden. the route (now) requires world-class skills, fitting for a world-class peak. it's 2012, these climbers (Kennedy, Kruck, and Lama) are evolved, the products of 200+ years of collective climbing knowledge. Compressor Route was then, these guys are now!

My only question is did they chop the bolts to help the community or did they chop them to make a name for themselves? If the former, than I don't really have an opinion having never been to Patagonia and not knowing anything about the culture there. If the latter, then shame on them.

Josh

http://www.alpinist.com/...r-kennedy-kruk-flash

Didn't see it posted here yet. I wonder how much of last year's film crew antics led to this. Maybe it didn't at all, but it seems the timing fits.

Thats bullshit. Who the F**k do they think they are? So they sent the route without clipping all the bolts, woopty fu*king doo, no one gives a shit. Thats not their route to f*ck with in the first place. That route has a long standing history spanning back to a time when those kids were shitting in a dipper and eating it.

This last summer I sent a route in BC that Trotter put up. It was a .13a sport line that I did on gear. So does that give me the right to chop the line? Fu*k no, who the hell am I chop someone elses' work? Bolt chopping is an egotistic immature stunt that basically says "look at me I can climb this line without bolts." Well guess what, no one gives a shit. Look at any veteran world class climber, do you see them pulling that crap? What a bunch of tools, I would happily stomp their asses if I see them.

On that note, Brent Perkins didn't chop the bolts on Proper Soul when he sent it on gear either.

Thats bullshit. Who the F**k do they think they are? So they sent the route without clipping all the bolts, woopty fu*king doo, no one gives a shit. Thats not their route to f*ck with in the first place. That route has a long standing history spanning back to a time when those kids were shitting in a dipper and eating it.

This last summer I sent a route in BC that Trotter put up. It was a .13a sport line that I did on gear. So does that give me the right to chop the line? Fu*k no, who the hell am I chop someone elses' work? Bolt chopping is an egotistic immature stunt that basically says "look at me I can climb this line without bolts." Well guess what, no one gives a shit. Look at any veteran world class climber, do you see them pulling that crap? What a bunch of tools, I would happily stomp their asses if I see them.

which means what? If I sent 1000 splitter cracks on gear, but decide to grid bolt ten 5.8 splitters in indian creak, is that okay because I sent 1000 other lines without bolts? thats irrelevant.

and who are the noobs that gave me one star ratings? if you have something to say, speak up like a man. burt bronson style, no pussy 1 star rating and hiding behind your computer.

which means what? If I sent 1000 splitter cracks on gear, but decide to grid bolt ten 5.8 splitters in indian creak, is that okay because I sent 1000 other lines without bolts? thats irrelevant.