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fsacb3
Mar 23, 2012, 3:19 PM
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jakedatc wrote: wow butthurts is strong with that one. guess what, those kids are stronger than you, try harder than you, train longer than you, and DON'T GIVE A FUCK what you do. do you get pissed off at 16yr old Dominican kids that can throw 90? There are elite athletes in all sports. you are not one of them, get over it.
Again, I'm not mad at kids, and I love that they're so good. I just don't think it's a great idea to praise them and make them celebrities. The 16 year old Dominican would be better served by not being put on the cover of Sports Illustrated. Lionize the oder people who have been through some shit and can handle the attention.
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ianwatson
Mar 23, 2012, 3:40 PM
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Man i cant wait till im 40 if i would have the time to climb once a week. Im lucky to get out 2-3 times a month.
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lena_chita
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Mar 23, 2012, 3:42 PM
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fsacb3 wrote: lena_chita wrote: "Why does one have to negate the other? Why can't you be impressed BOTH with your overweight 40yo friend sending V5 and tiny 10yo sending V13?" Why does admiring celebrities who are thin and beautiful negate the overweight ugly ones. We agree to value one and not the other. It doesn't have to happen, but it does.
Bad analogy. Looks you can't help. A 10yo girl sending V13 is not being admired for being tiny, good looking and wearing cute girly outfits. She is admired for an amazing accomplishment, one that only a handful of women of ANY age have ever managed.
fsacb3 wrote: lena_chita wrote: "Have you been around kids much? Do you know how rare it is for someone really young to have not just talent for something, but also the determination to work on improving?" I love kids. I'm around them a lot. Like I tried to to say, I'm not taking anything away from their achievements, but I think turning kids into celebrities is not a great thing. We can be proud of them, and encourage them, without hyping them way up and making how good they are as climbers the most important thing about them. What's wrong with letting them climb and then if they're still around in 10 years, then put them on the cover of a magazine?
What's wrong with admiring them now? Who knows, some 10yolds might not even be climbing in 10 years, while others might become 20yolds who are accomplishing something that has never been done before.
I don't think a 10yo climbing V13 is any less worth admiring if she chooses to stop climbing at the age of 14 and becomes a neurosurgeon, vs. a 10yo who sends V13 now, keeps climbing, and goes on to send V18 when she is 20 yo.
There is here and now, and there is a significant accomplishment. Good job! What happens later happens later and has no bearing whatsoever on the current accomplishment.
fsacb3 wrote: lena_chita wrote: "And when they DO work hard and achieve impressive results-- they get disparaging comments like yours. Lame!" Disparaging? Hardly. I climb at the same gym as Ashima. I encourage the hell out of her. I cheer her on and congratulate her amazingness. I just feel conflicted about it. I also feel conflicted that this 65+ year old man who shows up every day doesn't get congratulated for his awesomeness. Do you understand what I'm saying?
Yes, I understand what you are saying, but I think you are missing the point.
There are plenty of people of every age showing up every day, and doing mediocre things. There is nothing to congratulate them on. Just showing up is not enough.
When someone older does something amazing, it is celebrated just as much.
Ever heard of Jacinda Hunter? Not your average 30-something climber -- and she gets recognition for it. The rest of 30-something climbers who show up every day and climb V5 on a good day get a high-five from their friends for it, and hopefully get a sense of accomplishment from it. Nothing worthy of media attention
Lee Sheftel is in his 60s, climbed his first 5.14 when he was 59. Again, not your average 60+yo, so he gets recognition for it. He is not the only one, I can think of several other strong climbers who send 5.14s in their late 50s -- and you bet they deserve (and get) recognition for it. The rest of 50yolds who thrutch on V2 get a pat on the back from friends, but don't deserve a standing ovation and pictures in the media.
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fsacb3
Mar 23, 2012, 3:48 PM
Post #29 of 104
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lena_chita wrote: lena_chita
Good points all around. I concede. I guess I'll just try to come to turns with growing old and being mediocre
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jakedatc
Mar 23, 2012, 4:36 PM
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fsacb3 wrote: jakedatc wrote: wow butthurts is strong with that one. guess what, those kids are stronger than you, try harder than you, train longer than you, and DON'T GIVE A FUCK what you do. do you get pissed off at 16yr old Dominican kids that can throw 90? There are elite athletes in all sports. you are not one of them, get over it. Again, I'm not mad at kids, and I love that they're so good. I just don't think it's a great idea to praise them and make them celebrities. The 16 year old Dominican would be better served by not being put on the cover of Sports Illustrated. Lionize the oder people who have been through some shit and can handle the attention.
why, if the kid is good enough and attracts scouts and gets signed by a major league team then it could change the life of his whole family.
Media makes money through advertising, advertisers make money by attracting people to their product through celebrities, celebrities make money by doing impressive things to attract advertisers.
Some guy sending V5 is not impressive. a 12 year old sending V10/13+ is
where do you think Daniel woods, adam ondra, dave graham, chris sharma, Vasya Vorotnicov , cicada jenerik, Alex Puccio, Alex johnson, sasha DiGiulian all started. as 13-16 year olds who crushed and attracted attention.
who says they cannot handle the attention? I think you underestimate them since all of the ones above (and more) are extremely successful
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blueeyedclimber
Mar 23, 2012, 5:41 PM
Post #32 of 104
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Rants are lame. Go climbing. You'll feel better.
Josh
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donald949
Mar 23, 2012, 6:14 PM
Post #34 of 104
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ianwatson wrote: Man i cant wait till im 40 if i would have the time to climb once a week. Im lucky to get out 2-3 times a month.
At 46, I'm lucky to get 2-3 times a season. I think the OP overstated the frequency.
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shockabuku
Mar 23, 2012, 8:04 PM
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donald949 wrote: ianwatson wrote: Man i cant wait till im 40 if i would have the time to climb once a week. Im lucky to get out 2-3 times a month. Doesn't look good. At 46, I'm lucky to get 2-3 times a season. I think the OP overstated the frequency.
Make better luck.
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petsfed
Mar 23, 2012, 8:20 PM
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fsacb3 wrote: petsfed wrote: fsacb3 wrote: And I'm an old fuddy duddy who doesn't want to see climbing turn into such a competitive, number-chasing sport and lose its rebellious origins. There's your problem. If you stop thinking like its sometime before 1981, you might find the new set of wunderkids less offensive to your concept of how climbing should be. The only remnant of the climbers-as-rebels phenomenon is jack-asses with trust-funds poaching campsites because they think that somehow makes them akin to Yvon Chouinard and Fred Beckey. Sweet. I acknowledge that I'm nostalgic, and you agree with me. I think the "sport" was better before it got popular. I don't find wunderkids offensive, just annoying.
Curse my assumption that you understood subtlety and subtext!
The idea that any one of us would be a relatively better climber in the golden era is ludicrous. Whatever the anti-traditionalists claim, better gear, better techniques, better training practices, and far greater opportunities to climb have driven the phenomenal advance in grades over the last 30-40 years. So if you're nostalgic for a bygone era when climbing 5.10 made you elite, congratulations, you wouldn't have climbed at that level back then. It is absolutely no coincidence that the best climbers of the 70s remained competitive for decades after: they were blessed with good genes and the means/opportunities to hone their craft. So it goes with kids today.
You've bought into the Golden Age fallacy, and the sooner you divorce yourself from its suggestions, the happier you can be RIGHT NOW.
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drector
Mar 23, 2012, 9:13 PM
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fsacb3 wrote: Again, I'm not mad at kids, and I love that they're so good. I just don't think it's a great idea to praise them and make them celebrities. The 16 year old Dominican would be better served by not being put on the cover of Sports Illustrated. Lionize the oder people who have been through some shit and can handle the attention.
I don't think there is any evidence to suggest that this is true. Maybe the kid is way better off being on the cover.
In fact, being 47, I'd have to say that 3000 years ago, if you were not sending V-amazing+++ by the time you were 8 years old, you were probably going to get eaten by a tiger. Kids dominate because they are made to dominate. They learn quicker, move faster, think clearer (obviously) and rock climb for the pure fun of it.
I recall being a kid and hating adults. Why? because they hated me for what was not my fault. I was either too good at something for their liking or they just thought that I wanted to cause trouble. Adults never looked at me as a person, just as a generic kid that pissed them off.
Give the kids a break. They don't deserve your ridicule. They would be better served getting respect for their accomplishments instead of being dissed for their age alone. If you want to go watch someone more aged, do it quietly and with some respect.
Dave
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donald949
Mar 23, 2012, 9:49 PM
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shockabuku wrote: donald949 wrote: ianwatson wrote: Man i cant wait till im 40 if i would have the time to climb once a week. Im lucky to get out 2-3 times a month. Doesn't look good. At 46, I'm lucky to get 2-3 times a season. I think the OP overstated the frequency. Make better luck. 
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jas_per
Mar 24, 2012, 9:48 AM
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camhead wrote: fsacb3 wrote: I don't want to watch a 12-year-old piano prodigy play all the notes perfectly. I want to watch the guy who's lived and brings his life experience and might not hit all the notes but the result is more moving. I guess I'm just not into the prodigy thing. I was originally going to make fun of your complaining post, but I totally agree with the quoted section. Kid climbers and kid music prodigies lack depth. We just need to be comfortable in the fact that they are technically much better than us.
I started climbing at 4 , my dad took me in northern canada by the time I was 13 I was able to climb the sword , split pillar and more difficult climbs.
Then when I was 14 I was able to spend weeks climbing with buddies , we always did well.
I was able to almost free climb most walls with minimal gear easier than most men in their 20's 30 's or 40's.
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robdotcalm
Mar 24, 2012, 3:06 PM
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This thread has convinced me: I'm sick of adults.
Cheers,
Rob.calm
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jakedatc
Mar 24, 2012, 3:43 PM
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robdotcalm wrote: This thread has convinced me: I'm sick of adults. Cheers, Rob.calm
Yea, i climb with the climbing team kids at the gym when i am there. they are always psyched and super fun to climb with. Some climb harder than i do even at 12-15yrs old and a good source of beta and alternate ways of doing problems.
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blueeyedclimber
Mar 24, 2012, 6:40 PM
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robdotcalm wrote: This thread has convinced me: I'm sick of adults. Cheers, Rob.calm
I'm with you. Adults piss me off much more than children. At least they have an excuse. They're..uh...children.
Josh
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johnwesely
Mar 24, 2012, 8:28 PM
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jakedatc wrote: robdotcalm wrote: This thread has convinced me: I'm sick of adults. Cheers, Rob.calm Yea, i climb with the climbing team kids at the gym when i am there. they are always psyched and super fun to climb with. Some climb harder than i do even at 12-15yrs old and a good source of beta and alternate ways of doing problems.
The team kids at your gym must suck if they only climb v2.
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jakedatc
Mar 25, 2012, 12:57 AM
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johnwesely wrote: jakedatc wrote: robdotcalm wrote: This thread has convinced me: I'm sick of adults. Cheers, Rob.calm Yea, i climb with the climbing team kids at the gym when i am there. they are always psyched and super fun to climb with. Some climb harder than i do even at 12-15yrs old and a good source of beta and alternate ways of doing problems. The team kids at your gym must suck if they only climb v2.
they climb harder than that and so do I.
a few just went to Junior nationals in Coloradiego.
(This post was edited by jakedatc on Mar 25, 2012, 12:59 AM)
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johnwesely
Mar 25, 2012, 1:21 AM
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jakedatc wrote: johnwesely wrote: jakedatc wrote: robdotcalm wrote: This thread has convinced me: I'm sick of adults. Cheers, Rob.calm Yea, i climb with the climbing team kids at the gym when i am there. they are always psyched and super fun to climb with. Some climb harder than i do even at 12-15yrs old and a good source of beta and alternate ways of doing problems. The team kids at your gym must suck if they only climb v2. they climb harder than that and so do I. a few just went to Junior nationals in Coloradiego.
Just messin with ya.
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polishbob
Mar 25, 2012, 8:10 PM
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fsacb3 wrote: I suppose climbing will one day be like gymnastics and the best climbers will be pre-pubescent girls. But I'm kind of sick of the obsession with how good children are. Yeah sure, I'm old have some jealousy issues, but I also have a point I think. I don't find children climbers interesting to watch. It's boring. It's impressive but not beautiful. They don't weigh anything, they seem to exert no effort, they don't struggle, and they have not yet developed personality or style. I am much more impressed when I see a 40-year-old dude who's been working for a week on a V5 and finally sends it. He's sweating, he's screaming, he's got a job and kids and can only climb once a week. He's got some extra pounds so he's got to figure out how to haul that big body up the wall. Am I the only one that finds that guy more deserving of praise? Or on a higher level, I'd much rather watch Fred Nicole than the latest wunderkid. The kid floats up the wall, but it's boring. I find the same thing is true with musicians, dancers, tennis players, whatever. I don't want to watch a 12-year-old piano prodigy play all the notes perfectly. I want to watch the guy who's lived and brings his life experience and might not hit all the notes but the result is more moving. I guess I'm just not into the prodigy thing. Don't get me wrong, it's very impressive, but I don't find it as interesting. Maybe I'm thinking of climbing as an art instead of a sport. And I'm an old fuddy duddy who doesn't want to see climbing turn into such a competitive, number-chasing sport and lose its rebellious origins. The obsession with youth is a symptom of which way the sport is heading I guess. We're obsessed with numbers, both age and grade. Next time I'm at the crag I want to talk about how my buddy conquered that rock over there rather than how a 13-year-old climbed a V13.
Everyone is in title to their opinion, but you know what they say about "opinions". I just made this film http://vimeo.com/38595574, about a 12 year old sending 13d. The truth is that you completely represent the "new internet sprayer", who voices extremely strong opinions, but hinds behind some anonymous avatar. My next project is actually about people like yourself, so I will give you a chance to put your face in front of the camera and spray then. You can contact me via pm, I will show up and film you and see how brave you are, when we add your face to the strong opinions you post.
Robert Rogoz (aka Polishbob)
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ensonik
Mar 26, 2012, 9:05 PM
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Holly overreaction batman ... the original comment wasn't even close to agressive and he actually flat out said he was jealous. His post is definitely not an example of internet spray. You should spend more time on RC.com to see what it really looks like.
And yes, you can film me saying I disagree with you disagreeing with the other dude. I stand behind my "strong" opinion ...
polishbob wrote: fsacb3 wrote: I suppose climbing will one day be like gymnastics and the best climbers will be pre-pubescent girls. But I'm kind of sick of the obsession with how good children are. Yeah sure, I'm old have some jealousy issues, but I also have a point I think. I don't find children climbers interesting to watch. It's boring. It's impressive but not beautiful. They don't weigh anything, they seem to exert no effort, they don't struggle, and they have not yet developed personality or style. I am much more impressed when I see a 40-year-old dude who's been working for a week on a V5 and finally sends it. He's sweating, he's screaming, he's got a job and kids and can only climb once a week. He's got some extra pounds so he's got to figure out how to haul that big body up the wall. Am I the only one that finds that guy more deserving of praise? Or on a higher level, I'd much rather watch Fred Nicole than the latest wunderkid. The kid floats up the wall, but it's boring. I find the same thing is true with musicians, dancers, tennis players, whatever. I don't want to watch a 12-year-old piano prodigy play all the notes perfectly. I want to watch the guy who's lived and brings his life experience and might not hit all the notes but the result is more moving. I guess I'm just not into the prodigy thing. Don't get me wrong, it's very impressive, but I don't find it as interesting. Maybe I'm thinking of climbing as an art instead of a sport. And I'm an old fuddy duddy who doesn't want to see climbing turn into such a competitive, number-chasing sport and lose its rebellious origins. The obsession with youth is a symptom of which way the sport is heading I guess. We're obsessed with numbers, both age and grade. Next time I'm at the crag I want to talk about how my buddy conquered that rock over there rather than how a 13-year-old climbed a V13. Everyone is in title to their opinion, but you know what they say about "opinions". I just made this film http://vimeo.com/38595574, about a 12 year old sending 13d. The truth is that you completely represent the "new internet sprayer", who voices extremely strong opinions, but hinds behind some anonymous avatar. My next project is actually about people like yourself, so I will give you a chance to put your face in front of the camera and spray then. You can contact me via pm, I will show up and film you and see how brave you are, when we add your face to the strong opinions you post. Robert Rogoz (aka Polishbob)
(This post was edited by ensonik on Mar 26, 2012, 9:40 PM)
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IsayAutumn
Mar 26, 2012, 9:40 PM
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jakedatc wrote: Some guy sending V5 is not impressive. a 12 year old sending V10/13+ is
Nah, that's wrong. A person can admire whomever they want. And I happen to agree personally with the OP. It's impressive to him, and to me, and to a lot of other people.
BUT if someone starts a thread about it on RC.com, then they shouldn't be surprised when they get a slew of negative responses.
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jakedatc
Mar 26, 2012, 10:34 PM
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IsayAutumn wrote: jakedatc wrote: Some guy sending V5 is not impressive. a 12 year old sending V10/13+ is Nah, that's wrong. A person can admire whomever they want. And I happen to agree personally with the OP. It's impressive to him, and to me, and to a lot of other people. BUT if someone starts a thread about it on RC.com, then they shouldn't be surprised when they get a slew of negative responses.
I didn't say admire. I said what will get you sponsored and in magazines etc. he was complaining that they are getting too much publicity and stuff.
you can admire whoever you want. don't complain that the media is interested in the elite.
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matterunomama
Mar 28, 2012, 12:59 AM
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fsacb3 wrote: Disparaging? Hardly. I climb at the same gym as Ashima. I encourage the hell out of her. I cheer her on and congratulate her amazingness. I just feel conflicted about it. I also feel conflicted that this 65+ year old man who shows up every day doesn't get congratulated for his awesomeness. Do you understand what I'm saying?
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