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Bats
Apr 22, 2012, 6:01 PM
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I was climbing with some people that I normally don't climb on a regular basis. My regular partners were out there at the rock, but on a different route. The one guy has been a climber over 20+ years, the other one has been a gym/sport climber of 5 years. The more experience climber was going to extend the anchors on this TR route and switch out the rope. He had talked to this other climber/belayer of his plan. He went up the route got to the anchors, was secured, hollered for "off belay." All the belayer did was release his break hand, but everything else was intake and responded "belay off." I was puzzled about this and I questioned him about it. At that time the experience climber hollered "off belay" for a second time, then he proceed to remove the atc, again responded "belay off." Once on the ground I asked the experience climber if that was right. I know when my partners say "off belay" I better be off or I am going to have a hard time getting my atc off. I was telling this to my partner, and he said a command was given, and since there was a game play was discussed, it should have been understood to be off belay. The belayer and the experience climber said that the actions were correct.
What is your thought on this?
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jakedatc
Apr 22, 2012, 6:16 PM
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Bats wrote: I was climbing with some people that I normally don't climb on a regular basis. My regular partners were out there at the rock, but on a different route. The one guy has been a climber over 20+ years, the other one has been a gym/sport climber of 5 years. The more experience climber was going to extend the anchors on this TR route and switch out the rope. He had talked to this other climber/belayer of his plan. He went up the route got to the anchors, was secured, hollered for "off belay." All the belayer did was release his break hand, but everything else was intake and responded "belay off." I was puzzled about this and I questioned him about it. At that time the experience climber hollered "off belay" for a second time, then he proceed to remove the atc, again responded "belay off." Once on the ground I asked the experience climber if that was right. I know when my partners say "off belay" I better be off or I am going to have a hard time getting my atc off. I was telling this to my partner, and he said a command was given, and since there was a game play was discussed, it should have been understood to be off belay. The belayer and the experience climber said that the actions were correct. What is your thought on this?
If you call off belay with me, expect that you will be disconnected and I will walk away.
If you are just threading anchor you should be calling for "slack" then "take" when you're done and ready to be lowered.
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clc
Apr 22, 2012, 6:17 PM
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"The belayer and the experience climber said that the actions were correct. "
Everybody communicates a little different. So if thats how they want to do it. they are correct.
For me and my climbing friends. When I (climber)say "off belay" the belayer removes the rope from the belay device, the rope is free.
And normally what Jake said for threading the rope
(This post was edited by clc on Apr 22, 2012, 6:19 PM)
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tradmanclimbs
Apr 22, 2012, 6:34 PM
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Never, ever, ever, EVER say off belay when rigging to be lowered. keep it up and you will DIE.
the only commands you need to say are..
Slack ( while rigging the lower)
Take!
I'm on you!
lower...
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marc801
Apr 22, 2012, 7:27 PM
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tradmanclimbs wrote: Never, ever, ever, EVER say off belay when rigging to be lowered. keep it up and you will DIE. the only commands you need to say are.. Slack ( while rigging the lower) Take! I'm on you! lower...
One of my partners from BITD is a hard-core trad guy and doesn't have that much sport climbing experience. On sport routes he has the really bad habit of calling "off bely" the minute he clips in to the anchors, even when he is planning on being lowered. I've tried to explain how this might get him maimed or killed.
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tradmanclimbs
Apr 22, 2012, 7:38 PM
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If you are planning on being lowered you are NEVER Off Belay untill you are safe on the ground. if you plan on rapping you give the command Off belay when clipping the anchors. In any kind of sport enviornment I usually make the leader repete that command and confirm that they are in fact actually rapelling and NOT lowering.
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jeepnphreak
Apr 22, 2012, 8:40 PM
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Ill back up what most are saying here.
For me and my climbing partners, off belay meens that the belay device will be taking off the rope.
which come to two primary senerios 1 Ill be setting up a bley so they can second, or Ill rapp off the route.
If twe plan to get lower off than we call "slack" . . . "x number of feet"
of rope . do what we need at the anchor and call for "take and lower".
Any way to is fine as long as the communtcation is undestood by each climber.
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Gmburns2000
Apr 22, 2012, 9:07 PM
Post #8 of 16
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Bats wrote: I was climbing with some people that I normally don't climb on a regular basis. My regular partners were out there at the rock, but on a different route. The one guy has been a climber over 20+ years, the other one has been a gym/sport climber of 5 years. The more experience climber was going to extend the anchors on this TR route and switch out the rope. He had talked to this other climber/belayer of his plan. He went up the route got to the anchors, was secured, hollered for "off belay." All the belayer did was release his break hand, but everything else was intake and responded "belay off." I was puzzled about this and I questioned him about it. At that time the experience climber hollered "off belay" for a second time, then he proceed to remove the atc, again responded "belay off." Once on the ground I asked the experience climber if that was right. I know when my partners say "off belay" I better be off or I am going to have a hard time getting my atc off. I was telling this to my partner, and he said a command was given, and since there was a game play was discussed, it should have been understood to be off belay. The belayer and the experience climber said that the actions were correct. What is your thought on this?
as Jake said, if someone calls off belay then I take the rope out of the belay device and let them know they are off.
not sure of the circumstances (i.e. - was taking him off belay necessary), but if they discussed it beforehand then it sounds as if that's what they wanted to do. I don't see anything wrong with it.
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tradmanclimbs
Apr 22, 2012, 9:15 PM
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It gets people killed. some climbers get in the habbit of yelling off belay or in direct when they get to the anchor. The belayer either takes them off or starts chatting up the hot french chicks. pretty soon Majid is posting up and eveyone is either giving him crap or posting or spraying what N00bs they were or how it will never happen to me cause my shit don't stink.
If you NEVER SAY OFF BELAY when you are planning on lowering you chances of NOT being in a majid post go up significantly....
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sp115
Apr 23, 2012, 1:40 AM
Post #10 of 16
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tradmanclimbs wrote: It gets people killed. some climbers get in the habbit of yelling off belay or in direct when they get to the anchor. The belayer either takes them off or starts chatting up the hot french chicks. pretty soon Majid is posting up and eveyone is either giving him crap or posting or spraying what N00bs they were or how it will never happen to me cause my shit don't stink. If you NEVER SAY OFF BELAY when you are planning on lowering you chances of NOT being in a majid post go up significantly....
How did this get turned into a question about being lowered? The OP wanted to know if "off belay" meant hands-free or remove the rope from the belay device. So to answer that, it means the latter.
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Bats
Apr 23, 2012, 2:00 AM
Post #11 of 16
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The experience climber rappelled down which was in the plan from the beginning.
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kobaz
Apr 23, 2012, 3:52 AM
Post #12 of 16
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Bats wrote: I was climbing with some people that I normally don't climb on a regular basis. My regular partners were out there at the rock, but on a different route. The one guy has been a climber over 20+ years, the other one has been a gym/sport climber of 5 years. The more experience climber was going to extend the anchors on this TR route and switch out the rope. He had talked to this other climber/belayer of his plan. He went up the route got to the anchors, was secured, hollered for "off belay." All the belayer did was release his break hand, but everything else was intake and responded "belay off." I was puzzled about this and I questioned him about it. At that time the experience climber hollered "off belay" for a second time, then he proceed to remove the atc, again responded "belay off." Once on the ground I asked the experience climber if that was right. I know when my partners say "off belay" I better be off or I am going to have a hard time getting my atc off. I was telling this to my partner, and he said a command was given, and since there was a game play was discussed, it should have been understood to be off belay. The belayer and the experience climber said that the actions were correct. What is your thought on this?
I'll do this especially when I have a less experienced climber at the anchor who is prepping for a rap. I'll feed a boatload of slack out but keep it in the belay device and be attentive. There have been way too many accidents from miscommunication. When it's completely obvious they are taking up rope I'll complete the offbelay process.
But I agree with other posters that as the leader calling off belay, you must assume that the belayer is completely disconnected and probably not paying attention going forward.
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Colinhoglund
Apr 23, 2012, 4:09 AM
Post #13 of 16
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Off belay means I'll momentarily be digging through my pack finding a snack, in no way responsible for your safety.
That being said. Whatever works for a set of partners . . . However I still prefer KISS. On means on, off is off.
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desertdude420
Apr 23, 2012, 4:32 AM
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"Off belay" means that you are done with the belayer's assistance all together. So unless you are already safely on the ground OR clipped into an anchor and planning to rappel, DO NOT ever yell "off belay!"
Mmmkay?!
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bearbreeder
Apr 23, 2012, 6:14 AM
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i had to run and grab a rope of some gurl when she called off belay, and her partner ran off ... then she shouted lower ... i have not moved my lard azz that fast in a long time ...
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bill413
Apr 24, 2012, 4:32 PM
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I agree with "off belay" means that you are no longer being protected by the other person.
A possible reason for the way the two climbers did it is that in some situations you may think your partner has called off-belay, so you check/wait for a second call of the signal. Not wild about the idea, since if I'm not sure whether the climber called or not I should be keeping the belay on, not letting go of the rope.
On many climbs if my partner calls off-belay I'll acknowledge that I heard them ("Thanks" or some such), and call off-belay when I've removed the device.
I expect that when I respond off-belay (or call off-rappel) that the person on the other end is likely to start taking rope as soon as they hear the signal.
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