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david_g48


May 3, 2012, 4:05 PM
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Re: [rgold] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
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RG
I already knew what you conveyed in your response. I just thought it was unnecessary unless you wanted to post it in another thread as he has lost credibility on this thread and you are responding to something he has stated. As to your remarks about his guides you are not entirely correct because if they work for him, they support him and his view points period. If they do not support him then they should leave! There is no argument that will convince me otherwise nor can you support it. That said the owner is not as bad as he came across on this thread as I have shared some correspondence with him off line and I think he over reacted to comments on this thread and may actually be a very competent leader. Which would explain why people you think are good guides work for him. As I said it is not a good thing if his company gets negative reactions even though he contributed to it. I have no malice to him or those who work for him but if someone doesn't trust the leader they can not trust his followers. I think that I would trust him or his staff if I needed a guide service. I think that he needs to work on his presentation and to what means he chooses to support his view points.
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(This post was edited by david_g48 on May 3, 2012, 4:28 PM)


Gmburns2000


May 3, 2012, 4:32 PM
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Re: [david_g48] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
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david_g48 wrote:
RG
As to your remarks about his guides you are not entirely correct because if they work for him, they support him and his view points period. If they do not support him then they should leave! There is no argument that will convince me otherwise nor can you support it.

Dunno. I've worked for plenty of people over the years whose views I didn't agree with at times. Kind of hard to leave that paycheck behind over an internet argument, especially if the paycheck is steady and the risks of going elsewhere are greater.

edit to fix cheesetit.


(This post was edited by Gmburns2000 on May 3, 2012, 4:33 PM)


david_g48


May 3, 2012, 4:53 PM
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Re: [Gmburns2000] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
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Even though I understand what Gmburns said it doesn't negate that he sold out his own beliefs and supported those he worked for. You should have quit if you really believed in your convictions. You then showed support for your leader and should be painted with the same brush, Sorry if this hurts but it is a reality.


Gmburns2000


May 3, 2012, 5:32 PM
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Re: [david_g48] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
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david_g48 wrote:
Even though I understand what Gmburns said it doesn't negate that he sold out his own beliefs and supported those he worked for. You should have quit if you really believed in your convictions. You then showed support for your leader and should be painted with the same brush, Sorry if this hurts but it is a reality.

Sorry, but I'm laughing now (out loud and still chuckling). No way. Doesn't hurt so no offense taken.

Gotta balance things out buddy. My god, I'd rather have a good job where I agreed with my boss 65% of the time than spending my life on unemployment by consistently quitting over disputes that I wasn't really hired to get into.

If you think you can be moral and happy with all decisions 100% of the time then you're either the luckiest man on earth or you haven't hit the workforce yet (or you're lying). Beer


david_g48


May 3, 2012, 5:46 PM
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Re: [Gmburns2000] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
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GM
Glad you took it well! I never said that I did not sell out in the past but do regret it now and will never do it again. This comes from a person who most likely has more experience in the work force than the years that you have been alive. People who stand by their convictions become someone most people wish to be. You should reconsider who you work for if they do not represent your basic beliefs. You do not have to agree with them 100% of the time for them to be representative of your basic beliefs. Don't sell out , take a stand. Look at Chen from China, he is a great person who did not sell out.


Gmburns2000


May 3, 2012, 6:04 PM
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Re: [david_g48] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
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david_g48 wrote:
GM
Glad you took it well! I never said that I did not sell out in the past but do regret it now and will never do it again. This comes from a person who most likely has more experience in the work force than the years that you have been alive. People who stand by their convictions become someone most people wish to be. You should reconsider who you work for if they do not represent your basic beliefs. You do not have to agree with them 100% of the time for them to be representative of your basic beliefs. Don't sell out , take a stand. Look at Chen from China, he is a great person who did not sell out.

well, I'm self-employed now, not because I disagreed with my boss, but because I got bored with the challenges presented to me. my first job was a HWM analyst and there are a lot of sketchy people working around those analysts. sometimes the conviction is the job itself. same with the hospital i worked for. in both cases, i prefered to argue my points and lose than quit the job, and yes, both jobs had plenty of questionable practices / people.

I get you though. cheers!


curt


May 3, 2012, 6:06 PM
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Re: [david_g48] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
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david_g48 wrote:
Even though I understand what Gmburns said it doesn't negate that he sold out his own beliefs and supported those he worked for. You should have quit if you really believed in your convictions. You then showed support for your leader and should be painted with the same brush, Sorry if this hurts but it is a reality.


Funny, but you are now doing exactly what NEGuiding did--posting your personal opinion as fact, which it certainly is not.

Curt


david_g48


May 3, 2012, 6:28 PM
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Re: [curt] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
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Curt
Please tell me where I am wrong specifically. GM said he did not believe in what the people he worked for but continued to work for them. I hope that you are not disputing what GM said. I said that that is a form of selling out. Are you disputing what dictionaries would support? I also said if you really believe in your convictions you should quit. Again do you disagree with this? These are general beliefs held by many. Do you have facts to refute this or my beliefs? You are having a knee jerk reaction in my humble opinion because in general GM and RG are generally respected individuals. I respect both of them but do not have to agree with them on all levels. If you have something factual to say I would like to hear it. I do not think that NEGUIDES was 100 % correct but do not believe that the forum should have gone out of their way to contact his affiliations. I think that I have been very careful to not state things that were my opinion versus fact. You need to read my posts closely. If I have misled you show me exactly where and I will correct it.
Also, you have got to acknowledge that this thread has sprung quite a life of its own and does bring out many opinions and is entertaining.
Cheers


carabiner96


May 3, 2012, 7:05 PM
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Re: [david_g48] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
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And just when you think the show is over...


curt


May 3, 2012, 7:46 PM
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Re: [david_g48] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
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david_g48 wrote:
Curt
Please tell me where I am wrong specifically.

OK

david_g48 wrote:
I think that I have been very careful to not state things that were my opinion versus fact.

Right there.

Curt


tower_climber


May 3, 2012, 8:26 PM
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Re: [curt] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
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Jumping Jehoshaphat!

An Encore!


tradmanclimbs


May 4, 2012, 4:24 AM
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Re: [jakedatc] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
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Never heard of the PGCI or whatever it is before yesterday. this Joseph dude was brought onboard for his marketing skillzWink that is pretty darn funny stuff. I anm guessing that this is just about the worst marketing campaine I have ever encountered....


pcorridon


May 4, 2012, 10:47 AM
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Re: [tradmanclimbs] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
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Mein gott, I never post but I have to this time. In a previous life in a company I used to work for, we would euphemistically say to each other "PULL UP! PULL UP!," if someone was going to crash and burn, and I so wanted to say that to NE climbing pro or whatever his name is. Sorry, I couldn't read all 10 pages; I got bored after 3, but it was amusing. I particularly liked the part about the 20KN requirement (or recommendation?) for the master point on a top rope anchor. Classic.


majid_sabet


May 4, 2012, 11:12 AM
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Re: [carabiner96] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
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carabiner96 wrote:
And just when you think the show is over...

entertaining, let me get you some popcorn


tomcat


May 4, 2012, 11:53 AM
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Re: [tradmanclimbs] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
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I never heard of PGCI or whatever before either Nick (tradmanclimbz), and the scary thing is that these organizations often have the ear of land managers, and purport,like that fool here, to speak for climbers in general.


spikeddem


May 4, 2012, 7:07 PM
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Re: [tomcat] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
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Just when I started to think RC.com had lost it!!!!!!!!

Congrats, guys and gals!


majid_sabet


May 5, 2012, 1:06 AM
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Re: [NEGuiding] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
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NEGuiding wrote:
Billcoe, the only thing I can say to you is I just explained to you what guides do in several different applications. Whether it be trees, boulders or artificial anchors. I invite you take some professional training from AMGA, PCGI or PCIA and you'll see what I mean. The main and first choice for building anchors IS static rope, plain and simple. It's safer and easily adjustable.

If you hold a piece of webbing in one hand and static rope in the other hand which would you trust your life with? It's like comparing a piece of woven tape to 8 pieces of low or zero stretch (static)climbing rope. I'm going to go with the static rope lol!

I have this discussion a lot with novice and old climbers.


please advice if these setups are unsafe.









jjanowia


May 5, 2012, 2:32 AM
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Re: [majid_sabet] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
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Whoah be careful, this post is dangerously 'on-topic':

Are there important differences in construction of 'static rope' as it is referred to in this thread, and the type of cord one might normally purchase for use in a cordelette / equalette besides width?

For those of you using static rope for anchoring, what diameter is it?


tradmanclimbs


May 5, 2012, 4:17 AM
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Re: [jjanowia] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
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ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ what is all this talk about anchors, can't we just bash that marketing specialist/guide some more?


healyje


May 5, 2012, 4:47 AM
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Re: [wonderwoman] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
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wonderwoman wrote:
Please discuss your webbing vs. top rope issues here.

I'm not even going to do more than 'wonder' how this topic could possibly warrant 240+ replies, but the only real negative about webbing in the webbing vs. rope debate I can see is that when you read about failed TR anchor rigs, it usually involves webbing.

So the argument against webbing, from my perspective, has less to do with webbing per se and is more a lowest common denominator / Darwinian deal. Then again, anyone who's in danger of fucking up a webbing anchor shouldn't be setting up anchors of any kind. Basically, today's climbing demographic is inclusive to a fault.


tradmanclimbs


May 5, 2012, 6:37 AM
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Re: [healyje] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
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Most of the webbing related failures that i have either encountered or read about are either knott failures. water knots tend to creep in webbing eventualy working themselfs all the way through =splat or burn through errors. No biner = splat or just plain old and faded time to break =splat. I actually agree with the Guide on this one just not as adamant about it. On a related note. Webbing is pleanty strong and light but should NEVER be used as a permanent anchor. Why? because it turns to shit quickly, attracts more webbing which in turn turns to shit and it looks like shit.


tradmanclimbs


May 5, 2012, 6:48 AM
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Re: [tradmanclimbs] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
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Slings and rings suck. Bolts are much lower visual and enviro impact at least 90% of the time. Sometimes the only viable option for a fixed anchor is a tree. If the option for bolts is there I usualy go with the bolts to keep the impact as low as possible.
Attachments: slings3.jpg (120 KB)
  Rings2.jpg (148 KB)


billcoe_


May 5, 2012, 8:10 AM
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Re: [curt] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
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curt wrote:
... you are now doing exactly what NEGuiding did--posting your personal opinion as fact, which it certainly is not.

Curt

Well, it appears that NE guiding was right on one thing, you ARE argumentative:-)


LOL!!!!

Take care all

Bill


gimmeslack


May 5, 2012, 8:35 AM
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Re: [billcoe_] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
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I guess I am really old... it boggles my mind that anyone would be questioning static vs. webbing for an anchor. Both are bomber *if the anchor is properly configured and tied*. The whole premise that any 'expert' can dogmatically eliminate an *individual* element of anchor construction, rather than discussing what *as a whole* constitutes a proper anchor, just spotlights how ridiculous climbing 'technique' discussions have become, largely as a result of armchair experts who haven't put in their time (with 'old' mentors I might add...) learning how to climb.


majid_sabet


May 5, 2012, 9:27 AM
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Re: [tradmanclimbs] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
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tradmanclimbs wrote:
Never heard of the PGCI or whatever it is before yesterday. this Joseph dude was brought onboard for his marketing skillzWink that is pretty darn funny stuff. I anm guessing that this is just about the worst marketing campaine I have ever encountered....

and now I wonder how many marketing agents like our NEguide are out there

may be we should setup a trap and invite them for a challenge and verification of their credentials

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