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ecade
Mar 12, 2012, 6:58 PM
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Howdy,
First the question then the explanation:
can a sling be rigged in a way to use for bounce testing placements while connected to a top rope? What is the bare minimum amount of gear required to bounce test placements while on a top rope?
Explanation:
I'm a sport climber who is a new to trad and has never aid climbed. I think all facets of this sport are interconnected and important to know if you want to grow as a climber.
As my skills develop and my balls grow, i'll certainly consider Aid but at present, my goal is developing trad.
Where I'm from majority of rock is chossy limestone and coming from bolts, i don't have too much confidence in the rock i'm placing in. So i'm thinking that a great way to become confident and test my placements and the rock in a safe way is to bounce test them.
I'd prefer not to invest in Aid gear because, at present, I do'nt see myself using it too extensively, is it possible to bounce test placements without an aid ladder? Can a slings somehow be rigged up to achieve the same aims. Otherwise, what would be the bare minimum gear that I'd need to bounce test placements while connected to a top rope?
input and advice is appreciated.
Thanks and happy and safe climbing
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cobbledik
Mar 12, 2012, 7:34 PM
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Attach a 48"sling to your placement.
Step in the sling.
Bounce.
- - -
your bounce testing will normally be happening using your ladder and NOT your daisy. A sling is no different from a ladder with a single loooong step.
(This post was edited by cobbledik on Mar 12, 2012, 7:36 PM)
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cracklover
Mar 12, 2012, 10:01 PM
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Okay, well in the same order as your post... first the answer, and then the clarification.
1 - Yes. The bare minimum would be a sling. You can also add a biner to save wear on the sling.
2 - If you cannot figure that out for yourself, trad may not be right for you. Trad and aid climbing are not paint-by-numbers. You *will* get in situations requiring you to improvise and problem-solve, where your life or limb is literally on the line. I'm not making a value judgement, but these are areas where some people are good at coming up with quick and successful outcomes, and others... not so much.
Cheers!
GO
(This post was edited by cracklover on Mar 12, 2012, 10:05 PM)
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ecade
Mar 12, 2012, 10:23 PM
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Thanks for swift reply
Will test this weekend. And will look away when bouncing.
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doktor_g
Apr 9, 2012, 10:34 PM
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Yes look away from the piece you are testing. And keep your mouth closed so it doesn't hit you in the teeth. Wear some sunglasses to protect your eyes. Bounce testing in limestone will be a dubious affair. It is very fragile. I would advise you also to go to an unused portion of the crag and not on a favored test piece.
When I BT on the big stone, I have a helmet on. I'm looking down (so it'll hit the helmet if it pops) and I can see the fall if it happens. Come to think of it I think I may close my eyes when I fall though. lol. Also, I don't have my tongue sticking out or biting my lip so If I do fall, the rope, my knee or (god forbid) my foot doesn't hit me in the chin and cause me to bite it off.
Enjoy yourself, respect the stone and don't listen to the haters.
DrG
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ecade
Apr 9, 2012, 11:25 PM
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Thanks for reply, funny I was logging in to say how things went ask questions and get feedback .
I either placed great pro or I did something wrong.
I wore a helmet, so did belayer and she stood away and to the side with Gri Gri. Wore cheap sunglasses, but was confused on which way to look possibly because I was doing it wrong.
Rigged a TR, tied in climbed up, placed, connected
sling. Climbed above, put my leg in the sling and bounced, jumped, and used as a foot hold moved off. Rinsed and repeat. Cleaning was a bitch.
Nothing blew, evens cams held.
I had a few thoughts.
1 if piece blows will it crush my legs?
2 am I exerting enough force such that this is a fair sampling?
3 If a piece blows the pro is connected to nothing and possibly be compromised
4 where should I look, since the pro was at my waist when tested
Thanks for the advice Doc, and agree, theyll always be haters thats just the way it is, haters marry haters bitches and have hater kids
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doktor_g
Apr 10, 2012, 1:18 AM
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1. It won't crush your legs, but it may hit you in the nards
2. You probably are. I generally only bounce a few inches... tip toes and down... several times... jingle jingle jingle and move on.
3. Don't understand. If you're worried about dropping a piece since you aren't connected to it, just put it on a longer sling that's tied to you.
I forgot you were doing this on TR rather than lead. When leading aid, the piece is either in your face or above your head when bounce testing. If you want to see what it feels like, place something you feel fairly certain will fail with a bounce or two.
Also, a style point when you actually start leading aid... if you think your piece is likely going to blow, unclip your daisy from the piece below, so you don't factor 1 on to the piece that holds and you get rope stretch rather than a broken pelvis from a daisy fall.
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Kartessa
Apr 10, 2012, 10:21 AM
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Way to talk about haters after calling the rock here chossy. If you're blowing chunks off the rock with a little bit of bounce testing, you're doing it wrong.
I think the word you're looking for is "pussy".
Quit blaming it on the rock.
(This post was edited by Kartessa on Apr 10, 2012, 10:24 AM)
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ecade
Apr 10, 2012, 12:09 PM
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+1
I'm a bad person, I know, it's genetics...
How dare I call the escarpment that often resembles the western wall chossy. With all the talk of body image I should have been more sensitive, hopefully she won't become bulemic and start throwing up limestone blocks.
And ya definitely a pussy on gear, albeit I've never claimed myself as any thing but (it's even in the post). Crazy the notion that someone values there life eh. I've got less than 10 leads and maybe 15 follows under my belt, would welcome a consistent mentor but alas dont have, and have had to learn from books, reason, and experience with an intelligent, yet equally inexperienced partner. So I don't mind going slow, it means I hopefully have a lifetime to learn.
That said I was more aggressive grade wise on red rocks slabby large consistent cracks. On escarpment, i freaked and bailed off 5.7, at red rocks, i confidently and calmly led 5.7 & 5.8 miltipitches (2pitch climbs with bolted belays), could be mental but what do the means matter when I'm so inexperienced and the ends are so different? In time I hope to change that but at present im still losing the battle.
Am planning on heading to Val-David and Mont-D'Argent a bunch this summer (on books for Canada day, at least but would like to do weekend trips). I get free gas from work, happy to give you a lift, provided the hater attitude (which is as i see it, is the one that seeks to bring folks down and belittle rather than educate and empower) can be left in Ontario and youd be willing to teach and help me learn from you. I know it's a shitty deal, free transportation, someone to clean your routes, in exchange for teaching, being patient and adopting a positive attitude.
I'm a bad salesperson too eh :)
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Kartessa
Apr 10, 2012, 12:46 PM
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ecade
Apr 10, 2012, 2:05 PM
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Probably because like the pooch, i'm hungry for a steak and potato dinners worth of knowledge.
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ecade
Apr 10, 2012, 2:55 PM
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Thanks for the swift answers.
1. anyway to avoid this, i.e. is it because of climbing above the placement?
2 Confused, do you mean I'm too much or too little force. I am bounce testing with ropes of becoming more confident in my placement, only been climbing on gear for 8 months and may sound silly but i'd like more certainty on the quality of my placements, even if 100% certainty is unattainable.
3. I had thought that but was nervous that being connected to it could pose some risk. but ya that was stupid of me as it likely wouldn't and would be safer for my gear and belayer.
I'm no where near ready to go after the big walls and aid climbing. One day, hopefully, years from now, yes, that's mydream, that's the drive for me, but I don't mind taking baby steps to get there. when that time comes i'll post annoying questions and bother you good big wall folks :)
Thanks again for the advice and feedback Dok.
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cracklover
Apr 10, 2012, 3:08 PM
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ecade wrote: Climbed above, put my leg in the sling and bounced, jumped, and used as a foot hold moved off. Rinsed and repeat. Cleaning was a bitch.
Hmm... as you describe this, it would be hard to get your weight onto the piece much. I can think of three ways you could improve your setup:
1 - Use either a four-foot sling, or two slings connected together. Hold onto either the sling or the top biner as you're bouncing on the piece.
2 - Instead of stepping into your two-foot runner, clip it to your harness. Then bounce on that.
3 - Use the same setup you had, but in addition to clipping the sling to the piece, also clip your harness to it via a couple of biners or a short sport draw (the equivalent to a fifi hook).
Any of the above will allow you to get your weight onto the piece more effectively than what you did.
In reply to: 1 if piece blows will it crush my legs?
In reply to: 2 am I exerting enough force such that this is a fair sampling?
Possibly - it's hard to tell without seeing, but I doubt it.
In reply to: 3 If a piece blows the pro is connected to nothing and possibly be compromised
In reply to: 4 where should I look, since the pro was at my waist when tested
In reply to: Thanks for the advice Doc, and agree, theyll always be haters thats just the way it is, haters marry haters bitches and have hater kids
I'm not a hater, learn the difference. Or don't - it's your ass on the line, not mine, so if you want to disregard the reality, that's up to you.
Cheers,
GO
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cracklover
Apr 10, 2012, 3:19 PM
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ecade wrote: I'm no where near ready to go after the big walls and aid climbing. One day, hopefully, years from now, yes, that's mydream, that's the drive for me, but I don't mind taking baby steps to get there. when that time comes i'll post annoying questions and bother you good big wall folks :) Thanks again for the advice and feedback Dok.
You don't need much experience to aid climb. And a few slings will suffice for gear. No reason to wait years to shed the top-rope backup, unless the rock where you are is *really* shitty. I would suggest, though, that you pick up a book like Middendorf's How to Climb: Big Walls. It has all the info you need to improvise a system with slings and biners, and everything works equally well for a short single-pitch session as it does for a big wall.
GO
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ecade
Apr 10, 2012, 8:38 PM
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Hey thanks for the advice
Can you please explain why I'd want to connect the placement to my harness as you mentioned in point 2&3 and why if doing point 1 with a 4' sling I don't need to.
I learn best from instructions, experience but also understanding the reasons why, and I am just confused regarding the reasons why. But I am guessing your methods will allow for better testing as It will result in greater weight and force to be placed on the placement
Lastly, never called you a hater and my apologies if you think I may have insinuated that are. I do greatly appreciate the feedback and advice. But I do think this site has too many "bullies" but you can't let a few rotten apples keep you from eating from the tree of knowledge.
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ecade
Apr 10, 2012, 8:40 PM
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Thanks, I'll certainly consider, but at present I think it most prudent to get comfortable with one facet of the sport before biting off more. So unless you think it would assist in my abilities to place pro and develop as a trad climber I think I'd prefer to wait.
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cracklover
Apr 10, 2012, 9:12 PM
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The quote function is your friend. It's a pain to have to keep scrolling up to see what you're referring to.
ecade wrote: Hey thanks for the advice
No prob.
In reply to: Can you please explain why I'd want to connect the placement to my harness as you mentioned in point 2&3 and why if doing point 1 with a 4' sling I don't need to.
OK, in that order...
In reply to: 2 - Instead of stepping into your two-foot runner, clip it to your harness. Then bounce on that.
Um, because if you don't clip the piece to your harness, you're not bouncing it, you're just jumping up and down for fun, connected to nothing but your toprope. Which would not be a very effective way of testing your gear.
The point of this exercise is to bounce your full (or as close to full as you can easily get) weight on the gear. This method accomplishes that by connecting it to your center of gravity - your belay loop.
In reply to: 3 - Use the same setup you had, but in addition to clipping the sling to the piece, also clip your harness to it via a couple of biners or a short sport draw (the equivalent to a fifi hook).
Because this keeps your hips in close to the piece, and directly over the sling you're stepping into. That should help you get more of your weight over the leg you're bouncing with.
In reply to: 1 - Use either a four-foot sling, or two slings connected together. Hold onto either the sling or the top biner as you're bouncing on the piece.
Because you are using your hand in this method in the same way as you would use the fifi-equivalent in method 3 - to keep your hips in close to the wall.
In reply to: I learn best from instructions, experience but also understanding the reasons why, and I am just confused regarding the reasons why. But I am guessing your methods will allow for better testing as It will result in greater weight and force to be placed on the placement
Yes. Just try it. Standing next to a placement on a rock and trying to jump on it with one foot will not work as well as any of the things I said above.
In reply to: Lastly, never called you a hater and my apologies if you think I may have insinuated that are. I do greatly appreciate the feedback and advice. But I do think this site has too many "bullies" but you can't let a few rotten apples keep you from eating from the tree of knowledge.
Okay, that's cool.
GO
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ecade
May 17, 2012, 9:17 PM
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I Started bounce testing on lead. I found a place that has great cracks.
everything is holding well and that has left me a lot calmer when leading trad and well that is just awesome.
I posted something on another topic, Should I be Concerned, it was about a post you wrote. I wanted you and Rgold to discuss and you two have loads of experience. if you have a moment and can advise that would be greatly appreciated.
thanks
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majid_sabet
May 17, 2012, 9:52 PM
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ecade wrote: I Started bounce testing on lead. I found a place that has great cracks. everything is holding well and that has left me a lot calmer when leading trad and well that is just awesome. I posted something on another topic, Should I be Concerned, it was about a post you wrote. I wanted you and Rgold to discuss and you two have loads of experience. if you have a moment and can advise that would be greatly appreciated. thanks
I have a lot of experience reading people like you getting hurt or not knowing wtf they are doing out there
I feel sorry for the belayer who has to wait for 50pounder falling on her head
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ecade
May 17, 2012, 10:23 PM
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Great post sounds like you have a life that you are really happy with
I'll pass along your concern you noble creature
Any more really constructive points too offer ? Ideally ones that achieve the stated goals of the post's topic
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moose_droppings
May 18, 2012, 3:45 AM
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ecade wrote: Great post sounds like you have a life that you are really happy with (.) I'll pass along your concern you noble creature (.) Any more really constructive points to o offer ? Ideally ones that achieve the stated goals of the post's topic (.)
Just a few constructive points that are in bold since you asked.
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SylviaSmile
May 18, 2012, 3:45 AM
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ecade wrote: Great post sounds like you have a life that you are really happy with I'll pass along your concern you noble creature Any more really constructive points too offer ? Ideally ones that achieve the stated goals of the post's topic
That's right, defend your topic!! You have what it takes to survive here!  (Nothing else to add, except this topic was an interesting read and helpful for me as well.)
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cracklover
May 18, 2012, 4:49 AM
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ecade wrote: I Started bounce testing on lead. I found a place that has great cracks. everything is holding well and that has left me a lot calmer when leading trad and well that is just awesome. I posted something on another topic, Should I be Concerned, it was about a post you wrote. I wanted you and Rgold to discuss and you two have loads of experience. if you have a moment and can advise that would be greatly appreciated. thanks
Okay, I'll reply in that other topic. Short answer, though - keep the aid on the aid climbs, and the free on the free climbs. I definitely do *not* advise you bouncing or falling on your gear as a test on free climbs.
GO
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climber511
Nov 26, 2012, 3:20 PM
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The best way to test placements is to
1. go to a place no one climbs
2. Place your pieces "from the ground", there's no reason to be on a TR or to chance messing up an established route - bounce test them where there is no danger to you. Wear a helmet etc etc - Take a hammer to "TAP" out your stuck nuts (don't beat them out and destroy the rock) - but you really should learn to remove gear with just the nut pick. Bounce testing isn't going to tell you anything about how a placement will hold during an actual lead fall anyway. The forces aren't even close to the same.
3. If I'm reading correctly, you have been leading trad for 8 months? - you should not have any need to be testing your gear at this point - you should just be leading more. If you aren't getting comfortable leading trad after that long - my guess is you never will be. Trad is not sport - all gear will not be perfect - no matter how experienced the leader may be.
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