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Daggers


Aug 2, 2012, 8:27 AM
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Being held back by my shoes?
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When i first started climbing about 6 months ago, i knew nothing about it. Someone recommended the tarantulas as a good shoe to start with so I bought it. It's a good shoe. But for a beginner. I'm climbing v4's and v5's now and the shoe isn't good for sticking the small footholds and i'm feeling like i'm not able to progress any further because of my shoes. Are my shoes the reason for this or is it just a mental thing? I've been looking at getting futura's since several people i've talked to at my climbing gym recommend it and it seems pretty good.


eric_k


Aug 2, 2012, 8:39 AM
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Re: [Daggers] Being held back by my shoes? [In reply to]
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Its hard to say if the shoe is holding you back, or if you are holding the shoe back. I usually recommend all new climbers to stick with something basic like what you have for at least a year so you don't wear a hole into new expensive shoes too quickly. Its more likely that your body positioning is not allowing you feet to get the proper purchase on the holds in question. But then again a new fancy shoe could give you the confidence boast you need to trust the small holds. See if any of your friends will let you try their shoes and then you will know if it really makes a difference.

Eric


Daggers


Aug 2, 2012, 8:54 AM
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Thanks, i'll see if i'm able to try other shoes. So basically, my shoe is capable of routes of that grade it's just a matter of technique right?


lena_chita
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Aug 2, 2012, 9:04 AM
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Re: [Daggers] Being held back by my shoes? [In reply to]
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Unless the shoe is fitting you very badly (e.g. you got shoes that were way too big, or have a big air pocket somewhere, bc your foot is not a good match for the shape of the shoe, etc), it is unlikely that the shoe is keeping you from progressing beyond V4/V5. More likely explanation would be your technique.

A well-fitting shoe might make a difference between sticking a move and not, at the very top edge of your ability, but you will never jump grades simply by switching shoes.

My friend was looking at some shoes recently from a company he was not familiar with (Tenaya-- they are European brand that might be available in the US at some point), and he wondered out loud if the shoes were "aggressive enough". The rep said, smiling, "every single one of these shoes had climbed 5.14a at least".

Aside from maybe complete beginner/gym shoes, it is something to remember, because it is probably true for every shoe brand and model out there... it ain't the shoes, really!


marc801


Aug 2, 2012, 9:10 AM
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Daggers wrote:
When i first started climbing about 6 months ago, i knew nothing about it. Someone recommended the tarantulas as a good shoe to start with so I bought it. It's a good shoe. But for a beginner. I'm climbing v4's and v5's now and the shoe isn't good for sticking the small footholds and i'm feeling like i'm not able to progress any further because of my shoes. Are my shoes the reason for this or is it just a mental thing? I've been looking at getting futura's since several people i've talked to at my climbing gym recommend it and it seems pretty good.

You do realize that there are climbers who can climb much harder than V5 and can do it in approach shoes or barefoot? After only 6 months you're climbing V4-V5 because you're strong, but your technique still probably sucks a bit. It's not the shoes, it's the climber.


Kartessa


Aug 2, 2012, 9:12 AM
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Daggers wrote:
When i first started climbing about 6 months ago, i knew nothing about it. Someone recommended the tarantulas as a good shoe to start with so I bought it. It's a good shoe. But for a beginner. I'm climbing v4's and v5's now and the shoe isn't good for sticking the small footholds and i'm feeling like i'm not able to progress any further because of my shoes. Are my shoes the reason for this or is it just a mental thing? I've been looking at getting futura's since several people i've talked to at my climbing gym recommend it and it seems pretty good.

A noobie who's 6 months in with his first pair of shoes isn't sticking to the wall any more? Holy shit.

I don't think it's the kind of shoes per se, but more the fact that a new climber doesn't tend to have the cleanest footwork. You've probably beat the shit out of your shoes, your rubber "edges" have completely been worn away and you're trying to hook/edge on nothing.

Going with something like the Futura probably isn't going to help you much, it's a "no-edge" shoe that is super-soft and very thin.

If you like the Tarantulas, consider a resole or check out something along the lines of a 5.10 Anasazi or Sportiva Miura.

Another thing holding you back from further process is called a "plateau" look it up.


Daggers


Aug 2, 2012, 9:23 AM
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Re: [Kartessa] Being held back by my shoes? [In reply to]
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my shoe's condition is still good and truthfully, my technique isn't bad either. I probably should have mentioned that i climb everyday for about 6-9 hours on a good day with the occaisional day off for hanging out with friends so I wouldn't think that i'm a noob at climbing still. I always get help from more experienced climbers about technique too.

I am plateauing and i was wondering if my shoes were the problem since they are very flat shoes and not the best for bouldering but I guess it's just a mental thing.


curt


Aug 2, 2012, 9:38 AM
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Re: [Daggers] Being held back by my shoes? [In reply to]
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Daggers wrote:
my shoe's condition is still good and truthfully, my technique isn't bad either. I probably should have mentioned that i climb everyday for about 6-9 hours on a good day with the occaisional day off for hanging out with friends so I wouldn't think that i'm a noob at climbing still...

Well, you are. Assuming that your performance plateau is even related to footwork, others have already commented correctly--either you have some technique issues, or your shoes perhaps don't fit you properly. It also could be both, I suppose. It's very difficult to say without watching you climb.

Curt


Geekstar


Aug 2, 2012, 10:50 AM
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Re: [Daggers] Being held back by my shoes? [In reply to]
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Daggers wrote:
Someone recommended the tarantulas as a good shoe to start with so I bought it.....I've been looking at getting futura's since several people i've talked to at my climbing gym recommend it and it seems pretty good.

Regardless of whether your shoes are holding you back, I don't think that you should be buying shoes based upon what people are telling you. Buy shoes based on what your feet are telling you. Look around your gym/crag - is every person wearing the same shoes? Are even six people wearing the same shoe? One of the reasons there is a huge variety in shoes is because there is a huge variety in feet (and goals and climbing styles and rock and whatever. But even just the feet!)

The tongue on my first pair of climbing shoes just popped off one day, so I was able to get a refund to put towards a new pair of shoes. I was really excited because I was planning on 'upgrading' into a more expensive or aggressive pair of shoes anyway...but after trying on every pair of shoes in the store...I ended up rebuying the exact same shoe. When I bought those shoes 9 months ago I had no idea what I needed or wanted in a climbing shoe, but I knew what felt (climbing) comfortable on my feet.


Also, denying noobness is such a noob thing to do.


Daggers


Aug 2, 2012, 2:32 PM
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Re: [Geekstar] Being held back by my shoes? [In reply to]
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Geekstar wrote:


Also, denying noobness is such a noob thing to do.


lol what? no offense but that is really dumb and funny at the same time


healyje


Aug 2, 2012, 4:05 PM
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Re: [Daggers] Being held back by my shoes? [In reply to]
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Let's put it this way, if Daniel Woods were fitted identically with your shoes, how hard do you suppose he could climb in them? Or, to put it another way, one of my climbing partners can play half-decent Hendrix on a toy guitar.

It's not the 'stuff' that holds us back.


(This post was edited by healyje on Aug 2, 2012, 4:06 PM)


onrockandice


Aug 2, 2012, 4:46 PM
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Re: [Daggers] Being held back by my shoes? [In reply to]
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Take the interweb out of the discussion. Find someone who climbs harder than you, much! Like v10-v12, someone who's really put in some serious mileage dangling on rock.

Have them watch you climb. Have them critique your climbing. If you don't know anyone who's far advanced ahead of you that's the first problem.

You should find someone who climbs strong and is willing to tolerate you and give you some assistance. If you cannot find any such person then you are:

1. A dork nobody likes.
2. In a very isolated climbing area going it all on your own. But since you have V4-V5 I doubt that.
3. To proud to admit you need help, not gear.

Whatever your situation is get humble. If you refuse that, then video yourself climbing. Post it here and then get ready for a whooping and an education.

I think I have another thread that might be helpful for you... Let me see if I can find it.

Oh and rest days might help and also up to a few weeks off if you are pushing super hard. In less than 6 months I can promise you that your tendons are much weaker than muscles. It's going to take years to get your whole body in tune so you can understand what people here are trying to tell you. It's one of those things in life. You either shut up and listen to them as in *them* and not me. Or you don't. If you don't you'll be banned soon or so beat down you will have to register a new identity {edit} changed "idea" to "identity"{/edit} because you shamed yourself.

Helpful link coming soon.Sly


(This post was edited by onrockandice on Aug 2, 2012, 4:49 PM)


onrockandice


Aug 2, 2012, 4:51 PM
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Re: [Daggers] Being held back by my shoes? [In reply to]
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Link, as promised. http://www.rockclimbing.com/...9;page=unread#unread

Now I will fade into the background and quietly read the replies. I fully expect to take a few shots myself simply because I'm under 10,000 posts and should still be reading and not replying.Wink


Daggers


Aug 3, 2012, 6:58 AM
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Re: [healyje] Being held back by my shoes? [In reply to]
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healyje wrote:
Let's put it this way, if Daniel Woods were fitted identically with your shoes, how hard do you suppose he could climb in them? Or, to put it another way, one of my climbing partners can play half-decent Hendrix on a toy guitar.

It's not the 'stuff' that holds us back.


of course, i'm sure if daniel woods put on any rock climbing shoes he could still send v10's with ease. But do you think he would be able to do it easier in his shoes or mine? It would take more experience and skill to do it in mine.


onrockandice wrote:
Oh and rest days might help and also up to a few weeks off if you are pushing super hard. In less than 6 months I can promise you that your tendons are much weaker than muscles. It's going to take years to get your whole body in tune so you can understand what people here are trying to tell you. It's one of those things in life.

true, i haven't thought about my tendons. That might be the actual problem. Btw for everyone to know, i wasn't telling everyone my shoes are the problem and not me, i was wondering what the problem for me plateauing could be and asking for advice.


saint_john


Aug 3, 2012, 8:02 AM
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Daggers wrote:
my shoe's condition is still good and truthfully, my technique isn't bad either. I probably should have mentioned that i climb everyday for about 6-9 hours on a good day with the occaisional day off for hanging out with friends so I wouldn't think that i'm a noob at climbing still. I always get help from more experienced climbers about technique too.

I am plateauing and i was wondering if my shoes were the problem since they are very flat shoes and not the best for bouldering but I guess it's just a mental thing.

If that's true your shoes are worn out. There may not be holes in them but I'd bet the edge is totally worn down. Compare your shoes to a new pair and I'll bet you'll notice the difference.
No edge = slipping feet.


Kartessa


Aug 3, 2012, 8:06 AM
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Daggers wrote:
true, i haven't thought about my tendons. That might be the actual problem. Btw for everyone to know, i wasn't telling everyone my shoes are the problem and not me, i was wondering what the problem for me plateauing could be and asking for advice.

Not every crushes V14... and certainly not in the first 6 months of climbing.

It's natural to reach a plateau, you need to stand back now and see what you're doing wrong. YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING WRONG, everyone makes mistakes and/or has weaknesses. If you can identify them and work on them, you will again start to see progress.

You've reached the limit of your natural abilities and now it's time to actually put some work in. I'm not saying more hours, you need to focus on quality as much as or more than quantity - 2-3 hours twice or 3 times a week of mindful climbing will get you much farther than aimlessly punishing yourself for 6-9 hours a day.

Keep in mind climbing is a process, there is no instant gratification.


Daggers


Aug 3, 2012, 10:36 AM
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Kartessa wrote:
Daggers wrote:
true, i haven't thought about my tendons. That might be the actual problem. Btw for everyone to know, i wasn't telling everyone my shoes are the problem and not me, i was wondering what the problem for me plateauing could be and asking for advice.

Not every crushes V14... and certainly not in the first 6 months of climbing.

It's natural to reach a plateau, you need to stand back now and see what you're doing wrong. YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING WRONG, everyone makes mistakes and/or has weaknesses. If you can identify them and work on them, you will again start to see progress.

You've reached the limit of your natural abilities and now it's time to actually put some work in. I'm not saying more hours, you need to focus on quality as much as or more than quantity - 2-3 hours twice or 3 times a week of mindful climbing will get you much farther than aimlessly punishing yourself for 6-9 hours a day.

Keep in mind climbing is a process, there is no instant gratification.

I agree that I've reached the limit of my natural abilities. I actually just slightly pulled a tendon in my left arm today so i'm going to sit out for a week and see how it feels later. The hours I climb are never aimlessly punishing myself, everytime i climb i pay careful attention to footwork, technique, my ability, and getting to know what my body is capable of.
Climbing has become my life, literally, so everytime i climb is a time i'm trying to improve myself.


Kartessa


Aug 3, 2012, 10:39 AM
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Daggers wrote:
Kartessa wrote:
Daggers wrote:
true, i haven't thought about my tendons. That might be the actual problem. Btw for everyone to know, i wasn't telling everyone my shoes are the problem and not me, i was wondering what the problem for me plateauing could be and asking for advice.

Not every crushes V14... and certainly not in the first 6 months of climbing.

It's natural to reach a plateau, you need to stand back now and see what you're doing wrong. YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING WRONG, everyone makes mistakes and/or has weaknesses. If you can identify them and work on them, you will again start to see progress.

You've reached the limit of your natural abilities and now it's time to actually put some work in. I'm not saying more hours, you need to focus on quality as much as or more than quantity - 2-3 hours twice or 3 times a week of mindful climbing will get you much farther than aimlessly punishing yourself for 6-9 hours a day.

Keep in mind climbing is a process, there is no instant gratification.

I agree that I've reached the limit of my natural abilities. I actually just slightly pulled a tendon in my left arm today so i'm going to sit out for a week and see how it feels later. The hours I climb are never aimlessly punishing myself, everytime i climb i pay careful attention to footwork, technique, my ability, and getting to know what my body is capable of.
Climbing has become my life, literally, so everytime i climb is a time i'm trying to improve myself.

Get a job or an education... nobody makes a living as a climber - at least not a decent one for any significant period.


Daggers


Aug 3, 2012, 10:53 AM
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Kartessa wrote:
Daggers wrote:
Kartessa wrote:
Daggers wrote:
true, i haven't thought about my tendons. That might be the actual problem. Btw for everyone to know, i wasn't telling everyone my shoes are the problem and not me, i was wondering what the problem for me plateauing could be and asking for advice.

Not every crushes V14... and certainly not in the first 6 months of climbing.

It's natural to reach a plateau, you need to stand back now and see what you're doing wrong. YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING WRONG, everyone makes mistakes and/or has weaknesses. If you can identify them and work on them, you will again start to see progress.

You've reached the limit of your natural abilities and now it's time to actually put some work in. I'm not saying more hours, you need to focus on quality as much as or more than quantity - 2-3 hours twice or 3 times a week of mindful climbing will get you much farther than aimlessly punishing yourself for 6-9 hours a day.

Keep in mind climbing is a process, there is no instant gratification.

I agree that I've reached the limit of my natural abilities. I actually just slightly pulled a tendon in my left arm today so i'm going to sit out for a week and see how it feels later. The hours I climb are never aimlessly punishing myself, everytime i climb i pay careful attention to footwork, technique, my ability, and getting to know what my body is capable of.
Climbing has become my life, literally, so everytime i climb is a time i'm trying to improve myself.

Get a job or an education... nobody makes a living as a climber - at least not a decent one for any significant period.

I'm the owner of a company but in my case it's not really time consuming and I don't have too much to do so it leaves me with lots of time to climb.


healyje


Aug 3, 2012, 1:40 PM
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Daggers wrote:
I agree that I've reached the limit of my natural abilities.

I would assert that most all climbers will only climb to their physical limit a couple of times over the course of their climbing career - the rest of the time you are just jumping of the rock at one emotional/mental limit or another - i.e. you probably don't have a clue what your "natural abilities" are at this point as you haven't been climbing long enough to know, What you are simply at the limit of what you can deal with at the moment given your current level of skill, experience and judgment.


Daggers


Aug 3, 2012, 1:53 PM
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healyje wrote:
Daggers wrote:
I agree that I've reached the limit of my natural abilities.

I would assert that most all climbers will only climb to their physical limit a couple of times over the course of their climbing career - the rest of the time you are just jumping of the rock at one emotional/mental limit or another - i.e. you probably don't have a clue what your "natural abilities" are at this point as you haven't been climbing long enough to know, What you are simply at the limit of what you can deal with at the moment given your current level of skill, experience and judgment.

oh, that's what i meant with natural ability; how far i can get in my current state.


Fred20


Aug 28, 2012, 7:40 AM
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From one n00b climber to another, I found that shoes do make a big difference!

I switched from a pair of evolv's (Defy Vtr) to some 5.10's (Anasazi Moccasym). The rubber sole was like GLUE and I could practically walk the wall, where my other shoes had little to no ability to edge or smear in contrast.

If you climb at a gym, I am sure they will let you demo a pair and you should be able to feel the difference, if you can't then it's your technique. I was blown away at how good the 5.10's are, but still will wear the evolv's for more casual days.

There are bouldering problems that I can't even start with the evolv's, and are cake w/ the 5.10's...

Just my $0.02

fyi - I started in Feb going regularly 3x a week to local gym and had thought that was a bit overkill as well...people luv to be mean on the intrawebs!


bearbreeder


Aug 28, 2012, 10:07 AM
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Fred20 wrote:
From one n00b climber to another, I found that shoes do make a big difference!

I switched from a pair of evolv's (Defy Vtr) to some 5.10's (Anasazi Moccasym). The rubber sole was like GLUE and I could practically walk the wall, where my other shoes had little to no ability to edge or smear in contrast.

If you climb at a gym, I am sure they will let you demo a pair and you should be able to feel the difference, if you can't then it's your technique. I was blown away at how good the 5.10's are, but still will wear the evolv's for more casual days.

There are bouldering problems that I can't even start with the evolv's, and are cake w/ the 5.10's...

Just my $0.02

fyi - I started in Feb going regularly 3x a week to local gym and had thought that was a bit overkill as well...people luv to be mean on the intrawebs!

shoes do make a difference, but if you just started, it aint the shoes thats holding you back in the gym ...

this guy can do v13+ just fine in evolve defys ...



you just have to have the proper technique


Fred20


Aug 28, 2012, 10:35 AM
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I'm sure there are guys/gals that campus vXX+ rated whatever barefoot with 25lb weight vests.

Original post is whether new shoes would help. My only point is that if you can do certain things a lot easier without changing/improving technique in a better pair of shoes, you should prolly try some new shoes... the shoe does make a difference as you stated, and it can be easily tested at the local gym.

I can say that the dime edged foot starts that I can't even dream of starting with my evolv's aren't a problem when I use the 5.10's. I chalk this up not to my foot technique, but to the difference in the shoes.


bearbreeder


Aug 28, 2012, 10:50 AM
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can someone else in the gym do them in "cheap" shoes ...

chances are yes ... the footholds in the gym are quite big compared to outdoors, i havent seen any climbs indoors personally where its the shoes that are what allows you to do or not to do the climb ... not to say that one shoe doesnt work better for a particular person

now outdoors ... thats where shoes really matter once you get a bit better and climb a bit longer Wink

but then if youve been climbing since feb you know it all anyways ... and were all meanies Tongue

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