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dayers1109
Sep 19, 2012, 5:20 PM
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Hi,
I have been doing some short rappells and still having major problems coming to a full stop. We are using a std. figure 8. If my buddy on belay adds a little pressure, I'm ok - but don't really want to relay just on him. Is there something different I can use or do to make this easier?
I'm 210 and fairly strong, but grip all I can and still slipping. Do I need a different ring ? gloves ?
Thanks for your advice.
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jae8908
Sep 19, 2012, 5:22 PM
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you can get some accessory cord and make a prussik on the brake side of the rope
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dayers1109
Sep 19, 2012, 5:34 PM
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I've given a prussik some thought. Any links with more details? Specifics on what type of cord to use ?
Thanks
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redlude97
Sep 19, 2012, 6:02 PM
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Use an ATC XP/Guide or Reverso instead
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madrasrock
Sep 19, 2012, 6:17 PM
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Do two wraps on the eight plate, for more friction. Look for rescue pages on the internet.
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rgold
Sep 19, 2012, 6:48 PM
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A prussik might help a little, and has its own justification as a security back-up, but it is the wrong solution for your problem, which is that for the ropes you are using and your weight, your device does not supply enough friction.
Figure-eights, many of which have not changed since the days of 11mm ropes, are often inadequate in the friction department, but unfortunately the same is true of many modern ATC-style devices when used with ropes in the lower end of their purported range.
Some figure-8's are better than others. Ones with a relatively small big ring, and ones with rectilinear rings rather than circular ones, provide more friction and might do the job better for you. The ABC Friction 8 device http://www.adventureropegear.com/....php?products_id=243 has a rope-pinching shape that increases friction. And the Petzl Pirana, http://www.petzl.com/...or/descenders/pirana designed for the more demanding rappel circumstances in canyoneering, has various protrusions for increasing friction and locking off the rappel, and is designed to be threaded without removing the device from the harness.
European sport climbers notwithstanding, figure-8's are not effective belay devices, so you might consider ditching the eight altogether and instead experiment with as many of your friend's ATC's as possible. The highest-friction ATC device I know of is the Metolius BRD http://www.metoliusclimbing.com/...y_rappel_device.html.
The downside of high-friction ATC devices is that they are not so good for belaying the leader (the device tends to catch when pumping slack for clips) and rappelling with them can be jerky.
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Marylandclimber
Sep 19, 2012, 7:07 PM
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Just simply use an ATC.
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ninepointeight
Sep 19, 2012, 8:00 PM
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If all your interested in is sport rappelling on a single strand of rope, get yourself a figure 8 with ears for additional friction.
http://www.karstsports.com/smclafi8wiea.html
A mini rack with hyper bar is also an option for single strand raps.
If you are climbing, (this IS a climbing forum) you'll be rapping double strand, on an ATC or similar device and won't have this problem.
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dayers1109
Sep 19, 2012, 8:21 PM
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Thanks all for the great ideas - I think I can take it from here.
D
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billl7
Sep 20, 2012, 1:07 AM
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dayers1109 wrote: Thanks all for the great ideas - I think I can take it from here.D
The best / most complete is Richard's response ("rgold"). The device, the rope, and you are not the best combination.
For too long I thought a standard ATC should work for all ropes in the range specified for the ATC. Then I had a couple experiences with raps that seemed to be "too fast" and with lead-fall catches that were harder than usual to hold. Now I own several belay devices and bring the one I think is best suited for the circumstances.
Perhaps there is a one-size-fits-all somewhere but it is certainly not the ATC.
Bill
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bearbreeder
Sep 20, 2012, 12:32 PM
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every climber should know how to add friction to the rap device ....
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billl7
Sep 20, 2012, 12:42 PM
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bearbreeder wrote: every climber should know how to add friction to the rap device ....
Agreed.
And some of those methods don't transfer so well to lead belays and catching a hard lead fall. I know that's not the subject of this thread. It just explains why I've lately tended to look at the overall configuration in the general context of a climbing day. I usually use the same device for rappels and belays.
Bill L
(This post was edited by billl7 on Sep 20, 2012, 12:43 PM)
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patto
Sep 20, 2012, 12:48 PM
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dayers1109 wrote: Hi, I have been doing some short rappells and still having major problems coming to a full stop. We are using a std. figure 8. If my buddy on belay adds a little pressure, I'm ok - but don't really want to relay just on him. Is there something different I can use or do to make this easier? I'm 210 and fairly strong, but grip all I can and still slipping. Do I need a different ring ? gloves ? Thanks for your advice.
Something here still doesn't make sense. For starters are you currently using gloves?
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dayers1109
Sep 20, 2012, 1:04 PM
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Yes - I'm using gloves. I just meant is there something better or made just for single line rappelling. I've tried a few different types and find the thicker are better for heat but not grip and thinner better grip but can get hot. (never got too hot, but concern none the less). We have a BRD type, but the only issue there is the rope sheath makes it a little grabby at the start. Once past it, it would probably be ok. I'm going to try an ATC for a few short hops and see how that feels. Probably the same issue at the beginning.
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desertwanderer81
Sep 20, 2012, 3:23 PM
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jt512 wrote: Marylandclimber wrote: Just simply use an ATC. [img]http://jt512.dyndns.org/images/simplicity-60pct.jpg[/img]
I would give a silent prayer to the engineering gods when my professors would give problems with simple geometries like this.
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jt512
Sep 21, 2012, 6:05 AM
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dayers1109 wrote: Yes - I'm using gloves. I just meant is there something better or made just for single line rappelling. I've tried a few different types and find the thicker are better for heat but not grip and thinner better grip but can get hot. (never got too hot, but concern none the less). We have a BRD type, but the only issue there is the rope sheath makes it a little grabby at the start. Once past it, it would probably be ok. I'm going to try an ATC for a few short hops and see how that feels. Probably the same issue at the beginning.
Ah, you're a "sport rappeller." Now your posts make sense.
Jay
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patto
Sep 21, 2012, 9:49 AM
Post #20 of 26
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dayers1109 wrote: Yes - I'm using gloves. I just meant is there something better or made just for single line rappelling. I've tried a few different types and find the thicker are better for heat but not grip and thinner better grip but can get hot. (never got too hot, but concern none the less). We have a BRD type, but the only issue there is the rope sheath makes it a little grabby at the start. Once past it, it would probably be ok. I'm going to try an ATC for a few short hops and see how that feels. Probably the same issue at the beginning.
Very few of us use gloves whether single line or double line rappelling. We can stop easily with one had yet go quickly and in control with just one hand.
You are doing something quite different be it the device, the rope thickness or your braking technique.
Most of us don't encourage rappelling for thrills.
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climbingaggie03
Sep 21, 2012, 3:36 PM
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dayers1109 wrote: Hi, I have been doing some short rappells and still having major problems coming to a full stop. We are using a std. figure 8. If my buddy on belay adds a little pressure, I'm ok - but don't really want to relay just on him. Is there something different I can use or do to make this easier? I'm 210 and fairly strong, but grip all I can and still slipping. Do I need a different ring ? gloves ? Thanks for your advice.
The figure 8 is your problem, they're great for smooth rappelling, but they're smooth because they don't create very much friction. The figure 8 is an antiquated specialized tool, get an ATC XP or similar device and you will have all the friction you need. Shoot if you're only going to do single rope rappels you can get an ATC sport.
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Marylandclimber
Sep 21, 2012, 6:10 PM
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Lol! It's true though it's the easiest way!
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LostinMaine
Sep 21, 2012, 8:42 PM
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Use what I use and you'll have no problems.
The Fisk Descender.
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madrasrock
Sep 21, 2012, 9:58 PM
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Registered: Jul 1, 2005
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I have been using the Sterling ATS, for two years. The best rapelling device I have used. Also dose belay top and bottom, and has. multipal speeds.
http://www.sterlingrope.com/media/document/specsheet_ATS.pdf
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madkiki
Sep 25, 2012, 5:00 PM
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This past Sunday I did the scariest rappelling of my entire life and I used Auto-Blocking just like in the video above. This Auto-Blocking method might have saved my life that day.
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