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robx
Oct 8, 2012, 8:14 PM
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after a fun climb up clip a dee doo dah at jimmy cliff my climbing partner and I came down and decided to do the route next to it to the right. We walked up and saw a woman lowering her partner from the first pitch, and while he was still ~40 ft up, she was down to the last 8 ft of rope with no knot tied in the end. I grabbed the rope, tossed a knot in the end and she thanked me, but they still had a climber on the wall, and didn't know how to solve the problem.
The man stuck on the wall climbed back up to the first pitch belay ledge, with no personal anchors, no extra quick draws, no belay device, and when I asked if they knew how to munter hitch belay, they looked at me puzzled.
I belayed the lady up, and after about an hour, they figured out how to get to the top with all of their stuff and with both people.
The ironic part of all of this, is that other people in their climbing group made a similar mistake not an hour earlier when they stranded one of their climbers on the exact ledge trying to lower him. We were on clip a dee, and had to walk them through how to solve the problem while we were anchored in.
rc.com - would you have stepped in in either or both situations? I know both routes are free soloed all the time, but I'm wondering if you would have solved the problem differently.
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gblauer
Moderator
Oct 8, 2012, 10:27 PM
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Of course I would help. When someone needs help, you help.
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wonderwoman
Oct 8, 2012, 11:18 PM
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Moved from general to A & I by WW.
And, what Gail said ^^^^
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RobAT
Oct 8, 2012, 11:42 PM
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Loan them a rope. The guy and their gear are down in 20 min or less. No?
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louBlissab
Oct 8, 2012, 11:43 PM
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Why don't people simply pick-up a book or get professional instruction before someone gets hurt or worse!
Closing the system is basic safe climbing practice, that these people obviously had no clue.
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robx
Oct 8, 2012, 11:54 PM
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RobAT wrote: Loan them a rope. The guy and their gear are down in 20 min or less. No?
I loaned them my rope and a belay, got her to the top, then they sorted out anchor/belay stuff to do the second pitch, I guess they played around up there for a while trying to figure things out.
Honestly, the whole group of canadian uni students were a little terrifying to climb near, but at a place as packed as rumney I guess it's to be expected.
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billl7
Oct 9, 2012, 1:39 AM
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robx wrote: I'm wondering if you would have solved the problem differently.
Is it possible you put both of them in even greater probability of serious accident by encouraging them to solve it by doing the second pitch when obviously they were planning on doing just the first pitch?
Bill L
(This post was edited by billl7 on Oct 9, 2012, 1:41 AM)
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hugepedro
Oct 9, 2012, 7:04 AM
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This thread is making zero sense. She was lowering him (presumably on a rope). Ran out of rope, so he climbed back up to the anchor, where he had no means of tying in? Even though he has a rope that he's tied into? Then she led up to the anchors on your rope? And you let that happen even though they were seemingly not equipped with either gear or knowledge for the leader to belay the second? (Although they must've figured something out at the top of the second pitch.)
Why didn't you just tie your rope to theirs and lower him the rest of the way?
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robx
Oct 9, 2012, 10:44 AM
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hugepedro wrote: This thread is making zero sense. She was lowering him (presumably on a rope). Ran out of rope, so he climbed back up to the anchor, where he had no means of tying in? Even though he has a rope that he's tied into? Then she led up to the anchors on your rope? And you let that happen even though they were seemingly not equipped with either gear or knowledge for the leader to belay the second? (Although they must've figured something out at the top of the second pitch.) Why didn't you just tie your rope to theirs and lower him the rest of the way?
sorry I didn't explain this enough. They, as a climbing group had enough gear to climb this route, the original climber just brought enough for him to climb it as a single pitch, and lower (which wasn't possible). The lady belaying told me that their intention was to climb both pitches after they had warmed up on the first, so she reasoned that they might as well finish what they had started, as it was their intention anyway.
the original climber tied off into a quick draw that he pulled off of a bolt on his way back up to the first anchor, because he had no extra quickdraws.
In hindsight I should have just said "no" and climbed with my partner up to him, and lowered him from there, but clearly I put too much trust in a pair of climbers that didn't deserve it. What scares me most about my decision is that these two (and the rest of their group) climbed on through all of this like nothing bad had happened or could have happened (he was very close to being lowered off the end of the rope).
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billl7
Oct 9, 2012, 12:34 PM
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robx wrote: In hindsight I should have just said "no" and climbed with my partner up to him, and lowered him from there, but clearly I put too much trust in a pair of climbers that didn't deserve it.
Hopefully, you are just being sarcastic and don't really think that way about other people.
Okay - the decision to go to the top sounds more like it was theirs and that this was their ultimate plan.
Since they are not posting here and explaining themselves, seems the best use of this thread is to look at the alternatives you didn't know about ... like you originally asked.
... and thanks for preventing what would have been a serious accident (twice it seems).
Bill L
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cracklover
Oct 9, 2012, 3:43 PM
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I still don't understand what happened. But if it's just me, no problem, I guess everything's cleared up now for the OP.
I guess the only thing I want to add is that seeing people do scary near-deadly things is somewhat of a common event at Rumney. I honestly believe that the reason why there aren't many more accidents there is *precisely* because the place is so crowded that there's usually someone like you to step in and help out.
I'm not trying to make light of it - it does kind of suck to watch a party of gumbies try to kill themselves when you're just trying to have a good day out on the rocks. But if you spend enough time at Rumney, or any other popular climbing destinations with easy climbs, this is not the last time you'll see it.
Anyway, good job being "that guy", in the good sense, this time.
Cheers,
GO
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jt512
Oct 9, 2012, 5:01 PM
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cracklover wrote: I still don't understand what happened. But if it's just me, no problem,
I don't get it either.
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hugepedro
Oct 9, 2012, 5:42 PM
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robx wrote: hugepedro wrote: This thread is making zero sense. She was lowering him (presumably on a rope). Ran out of rope, so he climbed back up to the anchor, where he had no means of tying in? Even though he has a rope that he's tied into? Then she led up to the anchors on your rope? And you let that happen even though they were seemingly not equipped with either gear or knowledge for the leader to belay the second? (Although they must've figured something out at the top of the second pitch.) Why didn't you just tie your rope to theirs and lower him the rest of the way? sorry I didn't explain this enough. They, as a climbing group had enough gear to climb this route, the original climber just brought enough for him to climb it as a single pitch, and lower (which wasn't possible). The lady belaying told me that their intention was to climb both pitches after they had warmed up on the first, so she reasoned that they might as well finish what they had started, as it was their intention anyway. the original climber tied off into a quick draw that he pulled off of a bolt on his way back up to the first anchor, because he had no extra quickdraws. In hindsight I should have just said "no" and climbed with my partner up to him, and lowered him from there, but clearly I put too much trust in a pair of climbers that didn't deserve it. What scares me most about my decision is that these two (and the rest of their group) climbed on through all of this like nothing bad had happened or could have happened (he was very close to being lowered off the end of the rope).
Rather than climb up yourself and lower him, you should have just had him clip his harness directly into 1 of the draws on the wall, then tie your rope to the end of their rope and rig your rope in your belay device, then have her go off belay, then have him unclip from the wall and lower him. You'd have him down in less than 5 minutes.
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wonderwoman
Oct 9, 2012, 7:09 PM
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hugepedro wrote: robx wrote: hugepedro wrote: This thread is making zero sense. She was lowering him (presumably on a rope). Ran out of rope, so he climbed back up to the anchor, where he had no means of tying in? Even though he has a rope that he's tied into? Then she led up to the anchors on your rope? And you let that happen even though they were seemingly not equipped with either gear or knowledge for the leader to belay the second? (Although they must've figured something out at the top of the second pitch.) Why didn't you just tie your rope to theirs and lower him the rest of the way? sorry I didn't explain this enough. They, as a climbing group had enough gear to climb this route, the original climber just brought enough for him to climb it as a single pitch, and lower (which wasn't possible). The lady belaying told me that their intention was to climb both pitches after they had warmed up on the first, so she reasoned that they might as well finish what they had started, as it was their intention anyway. the original climber tied off into a quick draw that he pulled off of a bolt on his way back up to the first anchor, because he had no extra quickdraws. In hindsight I should have just said "no" and climbed with my partner up to him, and lowered him from there, but clearly I put too much trust in a pair of climbers that didn't deserve it. What scares me most about my decision is that these two (and the rest of their group) climbed on through all of this like nothing bad had happened or could have happened (he was very close to being lowered off the end of the rope). Rather than climb up yourself and lower him, you should have just had him clip his harness directly into 1 of the draws on the wall, then tie your rope to the end of their rope and rig your rope in your belay device, then have her go off belay, then have him unclip from the wall and lower him. You'd have him down in less than 5 minutes.
For this to work, the stuck climber would have to pull up all the rope on the belayer side in order to get them out of the quickdraws. Otherwise, the knot would have to be pulled through the quickdraws. Then you would have to assume the climber would be knowledgeable enough to thread the anchor.
Anyway - glad the OP was there to help out. Even if it was not apparent, I hope the stuck climbers reflected on what went wrong so they can learn from the experience.
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wonderwoman
Oct 9, 2012, 7:17 PM
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On further thought - Isn't clip-a-dee-doo-dah a 5.3 slab climb? Why not have the climber downclimb?
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hugepedro
Oct 9, 2012, 7:22 PM
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wonderwoman wrote: hugepedro wrote: robx wrote: hugepedro wrote: This thread is making zero sense. She was lowering him (presumably on a rope). Ran out of rope, so he climbed back up to the anchor, where he had no means of tying in? Even though he has a rope that he's tied into? Then she led up to the anchors on your rope? And you let that happen even though they were seemingly not equipped with either gear or knowledge for the leader to belay the second? (Although they must've figured something out at the top of the second pitch.) Why didn't you just tie your rope to theirs and lower him the rest of the way? sorry I didn't explain this enough. They, as a climbing group had enough gear to climb this route, the original climber just brought enough for him to climb it as a single pitch, and lower (which wasn't possible). The lady belaying told me that their intention was to climb both pitches after they had warmed up on the first, so she reasoned that they might as well finish what they had started, as it was their intention anyway. the original climber tied off into a quick draw that he pulled off of a bolt on his way back up to the first anchor, because he had no extra quickdraws. In hindsight I should have just said "no" and climbed with my partner up to him, and lowered him from there, but clearly I put too much trust in a pair of climbers that didn't deserve it. What scares me most about my decision is that these two (and the rest of their group) climbed on through all of this like nothing bad had happened or could have happened (he was very close to being lowered off the end of the rope). Rather than climb up yourself and lower him, you should have just had him clip his harness directly into 1 of the draws on the wall, then tie your rope to the end of their rope and rig your rope in your belay device, then have her go off belay, then have him unclip from the wall and lower him. You'd have him down in less than 5 minutes. For this to work, the stuck climber would have to pull up all the rope on the belayer side in order to get them out of the quickdraws. Otherwise, the knot would have to be pulled through the quickdraws. Then you would have to assume the climber would be knowledgeable enough to thread the anchor. Anyway - glad the OP was there to help out. Even if it was not apparent, I hope the stuck climbers reflected on what went wrong so they can learn from the experience.
I'm not familiar with the route, but I assumed he could clean any lower draws on the way down if they were in the way?
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hugepedro
Oct 9, 2012, 7:23 PM
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wonderwoman wrote: On further thought - Isn't clip-a-dee-doo-dah a 5.3 slab climb? Why not have the climber downclimb?
Better yet, just lasso him and drag his lame ass down!
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wonderwoman
Oct 9, 2012, 7:25 PM
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hugepedro wrote: wonderwoman wrote: hugepedro wrote: robx wrote: hugepedro wrote: This thread is making zero sense. She was lowering him (presumably on a rope). Ran out of rope, so he climbed back up to the anchor, where he had no means of tying in? Even though he has a rope that he's tied into? Then she led up to the anchors on your rope? And you let that happen even though they were seemingly not equipped with either gear or knowledge for the leader to belay the second? (Although they must've figured something out at the top of the second pitch.) Why didn't you just tie your rope to theirs and lower him the rest of the way? sorry I didn't explain this enough. They, as a climbing group had enough gear to climb this route, the original climber just brought enough for him to climb it as a single pitch, and lower (which wasn't possible). The lady belaying told me that their intention was to climb both pitches after they had warmed up on the first, so she reasoned that they might as well finish what they had started, as it was their intention anyway. the original climber tied off into a quick draw that he pulled off of a bolt on his way back up to the first anchor, because he had no extra quickdraws. In hindsight I should have just said "no" and climbed with my partner up to him, and lowered him from there, but clearly I put too much trust in a pair of climbers that didn't deserve it. What scares me most about my decision is that these two (and the rest of their group) climbed on through all of this like nothing bad had happened or could have happened (he was very close to being lowered off the end of the rope). Rather than climb up yourself and lower him, you should have just had him clip his harness directly into 1 of the draws on the wall, then tie your rope to the end of their rope and rig your rope in your belay device, then have her go off belay, then have him unclip from the wall and lower him. You'd have him down in less than 5 minutes. For this to work, the stuck climber would have to pull up all the rope on the belayer side in order to get them out of the quickdraws. Otherwise, the knot would have to be pulled through the quickdraws. Then you would have to assume the climber would be knowledgeable enough to thread the anchor. Anyway - glad the OP was there to help out. Even if it was not apparent, I hope the stuck climbers reflected on what went wrong so they can learn from the experience. I'm not familiar with the route, but I assumed he could clean any lower draws on the way down if they were in the way?
Didn't he only have 8 feet of rope left before he was off belay? but if we are talking about a 5.3 slab climb, he should have just down climbed.
Here is the epic climb:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...e_Doo_Dah_18972.html
(This post was edited by wonderwoman on Oct 9, 2012, 7:29 PM)
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hugepedro
Oct 9, 2012, 7:34 PM
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wonderwoman wrote: hugepedro wrote: wonderwoman wrote: hugepedro wrote: robx wrote: hugepedro wrote: This thread is making zero sense. She was lowering him (presumably on a rope). Ran out of rope, so he climbed back up to the anchor, where he had no means of tying in? Even though he has a rope that he's tied into? Then she led up to the anchors on your rope? And you let that happen even though they were seemingly not equipped with either gear or knowledge for the leader to belay the second? (Although they must've figured something out at the top of the second pitch.) Why didn't you just tie your rope to theirs and lower him the rest of the way? sorry I didn't explain this enough. They, as a climbing group had enough gear to climb this route, the original climber just brought enough for him to climb it as a single pitch, and lower (which wasn't possible). The lady belaying told me that their intention was to climb both pitches after they had warmed up on the first, so she reasoned that they might as well finish what they had started, as it was their intention anyway. the original climber tied off into a quick draw that he pulled off of a bolt on his way back up to the first anchor, because he had no extra quickdraws. In hindsight I should have just said "no" and climbed with my partner up to him, and lowered him from there, but clearly I put too much trust in a pair of climbers that didn't deserve it. What scares me most about my decision is that these two (and the rest of their group) climbed on through all of this like nothing bad had happened or could have happened (he was very close to being lowered off the end of the rope). Rather than climb up yourself and lower him, you should have just had him clip his harness directly into 1 of the draws on the wall, then tie your rope to the end of their rope and rig your rope in your belay device, then have her go off belay, then have him unclip from the wall and lower him. You'd have him down in less than 5 minutes. For this to work, the stuck climber would have to pull up all the rope on the belayer side in order to get them out of the quickdraws. Otherwise, the knot would have to be pulled through the quickdraws. Then you would have to assume the climber would be knowledgeable enough to thread the anchor. Anyway - glad the OP was there to help out. Even if it was not apparent, I hope the stuck climbers reflected on what went wrong so they can learn from the experience. I'm not familiar with the route, but I assumed he could clean any lower draws on the way down if they were in the way? Didn't he only have 8 feet of rope left before he was off belay? but if we are talking about a 5.3 slab climb, he should have just down climbed. Here is the epic climb: http://www.rockclimbing.com/...e_Doo_Dah_18972.html
Call a cab to come pick him up, you could drive up there.
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Gmburns2000
Oct 9, 2012, 7:53 PM
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wonderwoman wrote: On further thought - Isn't clip-a-dee-doo-dah a 5.3 slab climb? Why not have the climber downclimb?
no, the first poster said that HE had just finished climbing CDD when he came upon the mess.
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cracklover
Oct 9, 2012, 7:53 PM
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Ugh, this thread is already such a muddled mess, but here goes...
wonderwoman wrote: On further thought - Isn't clip-a-dee-doo-dah a 5.3 slab climb? Why not have the climber downclimb?
This didn't happen on Clip a Dee Doo Dah. The OP said that he and his partner had just finished Clip a Dee Doo Dah, while the party in question was on "the route next to it to the right", which in my old guidebook, is Standard Route a 5.3 trad route. It is described in Ward Smith's guidebook as follows: In reply to: A two-pitch wandering line up the vegetated slabs to the right
I still don't really understand what the OP says occurred, though. I don't understand what a munter hitch belay has to do with anything, or why the OP would belay the current belayer up the climb, when they already had a rope too short to get down - how does that help anything? Seems to me now you just have two stranded climbers two pitches up.
GO
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wonderwoman
Oct 9, 2012, 8:03 PM
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cracklover wrote: Ugh, this thread is already such a muddled mess, but here goes... wonderwoman wrote: On further thought - Isn't clip-a-dee-doo-dah a 5.3 slab climb? Why not have the climber downclimb? This didn't happen on Clip a Dee Doo Dah. The OP said that he and his partner had just finished Clip a Dee Doo Dah, while the party in question was on "the route next to it to the right", which in my old guidebook, is Standard Route a 5.3 trad route. It is described in Ward Smith's guidebook as follows: In reply to: A two-pitch wandering line up the vegetated slabs to the right I still don't really understand what the OP says occurred, though. I don't understand what a munter hitch belay has to do with anything, or why the OP would belay the current belayer up the climb, when they already had a rope too short to get down - how does that help anything? Seems to me now you just have two stranded climbers two pitches up. GO
5.3 slab - trad or sport - either way, downclimbing would have been helpful.
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hugepedro
Oct 9, 2012, 8:07 PM
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cracklover wrote: Ugh, this thread is already such a muddled mess, but here goes... wonderwoman wrote: On further thought - Isn't clip-a-dee-doo-dah a 5.3 slab climb? Why not have the climber downclimb? This didn't happen on Clip a Dee Doo Dah. The OP said that he and his partner had just finished Clip a Dee Doo Dah, while the party in question was on "the route next to it to the right", which in my old guidebook, is Standard Route a 5.3 trad route. It is described in Ward Smith's guidebook as follows: In reply to: A two-pitch wandering line up the vegetated slabs to the right I still don't really understand what the OP says occurred, though. I don't understand what a munter hitch belay has to do with anything, or why the OP would belay the current belayer up the climb, when they already had a rope too short to get down - how does that help anything? Seems to me now you just have two stranded climbers two pitches up. GO
I assumed the munter hitch would be for the leader, who didn't have a belay device, to belay up the second?
I still don't understand why he didn't just tie his rope on theirs and finish lowering the guy. N00bs rescuing n00bs, I guess.
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