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UpToTheOzone
Oct 8, 2012, 10:36 PM
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I've known for a long time that clipping at waist level is better than clipping above your head for fall length. Recently I've noticed some more important factors: placing gear above your head takes away hand holds, extending a draw and clipping it to the rope without pulling the rope up saves energy, lastly, belaying someone who places as high as possible is a pain because they are suddenly reaching for a lot of rope, instead of just a foot or two.
When at a comfortable stance, with the option of placing your gear as high as you can reach, or at your waist, what is optimal? I realize that like anything in climbing, "it depends on the situation," but if given the choice, where do you like to place your gear and clip from?
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deschamps1000
Oct 8, 2012, 11:02 PM
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It depends on the situation.
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bearbreeder
Oct 8, 2012, 11:03 PM
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place the best piece from the best stance you can ... its that simple 
there are no rules, do what works, if you climb enough trad youll figure out the little intricacies that works for you ...
anyone that tells you there are hard and set rules ... well lets just say they likely havent been pumped out on a 5.12 crux trying to get gear in in order to follow their own intraweb "rules"
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marc801
Oct 8, 2012, 11:03 PM
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UpToTheOzone wrote: I've known for a long time that clipping at waist level is better than clipping above your head for fall length. Recently I've noticed some more important factors: placing gear above your head takes away hand holds, extending a draw and clipping it to the rope without pulling the rope up saves energy, lastly, belaying someone who places as high as possible is a pain because they are suddenly reaching for a lot of rope, instead of just a foot or two. When at a comfortable stance, with the option of placing your gear as high as you can reach, or at your waist, what is optimal? I realize that like anything in climbing, "it depends on the situation," but if given the choice, where do you like to place your gear and clip from?
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Guran
Oct 9, 2012, 2:57 PM
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The real challenge, when pumped and scared, is to realize that you are just one simple move from a perfect rest stance from which that placement can be made at waist height.
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csproul
Oct 9, 2012, 3:19 PM
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I mostly agree with what has been said. Let the gear, rock and stance dictate where the placement goes. I do find that when crack climbing I often make the mistake of trying to place gear high at the expense of taking up a good hold/jam. Also, because I'm placing gear above my shoulder it often just gets in the way of the next set of jams. In these cases I try to think about placing gear at my waist just to keep it out of the way.
Likewise, with ice climbing (not that I've done a whole lot recently!) I have found it easier to get screws in between my waist and shoulder height. Seems harder to me to place a screw at should height or higher.
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cracklover
Oct 9, 2012, 5:58 PM
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UpToTheOzone wrote: I've known for a long time that clipping at waist level is better than clipping above your head for fall length. Recently I've noticed some more important factors: placing gear above your head takes away hand holds, extending a draw and clipping it to the rope without pulling the rope up saves energy, lastly, belaying someone who places as high as possible is a pain because they are suddenly reaching for a lot of rope, instead of just a foot or two. When at a comfortable stance, with the option of placing your gear as high as you can reach, or at your waist, what is optimal? I realize that like anything in climbing, "it depends on the situation," but if given the choice, where do you like to place your gear and clip from?
To expand a little on the "it depends" answer:
OK, you're at a good stance, with options. Here's how I choose. I mean I don't really go through all this in my head, but I'm spelling out what is a near-instant process.
1 - Can I skip placing here completely? Factors that go into this are:
- how hard is the climbing coming up?
- where is my last piece, and how good is it?
- how high would I have to go to get the next good piece?
- is there anything bad to hit if I come off?
- how much gear do I have left for the amount of climbing in the pitch, and especially how much that will fit the placements I see?
2 - If I decide to place a piece, then
- First priority always goes to at least a "good" placement (if it's available) over a "just okay" one. It doesn't have to be the best one, though. Other factors (below) are more important.
- If all that's available are mediocre pieces, and the climbing above looks hard, make a judgement call about placing multiple placements here if possible, or climbing up to look for a better one and then downclimbing back to this rest.
- If there is more than one option for good placements, can I see where the next place for gear will be? If it looks like a long way away, and the climbing looks to be near my limit, I may place more than one piece, if I'm not too concerned about running out of gear for the pitch.
- If I'm comfortable with just placing one piece, place it where it doesn't take up the best hand or foothold.
- If I still have options, place the one that doesn't require a sling if I'm running very short on slings.
- If I still have options, place the highest one I can from my stance.
- If I still have options, place the heaviest one, as early in the pitch as possible (it's a fun game, called "fuck the second!").
So, no. Trad climbing, I pretty much never consider it a rule to "place at my waist". Even the game of "fuck the second" has priority on my list. In sport climbing, that's another story.
Hope that helps.
Cheers!
GO
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jnm1
Oct 10, 2012, 11:33 PM
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That was an excellent reply, thanks.
And while you mention "fuck the second", I climb with someone who's almost 4 inches taller and when he places a piece at his reach I have to do an extra move to pull it and it's usually not a good stance. I have to constantly remind him that I'm shorter than he is.
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acorneau
Oct 11, 2012, 2:01 AM
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jnm1 wrote: That was an excellent reply, thanks. And while you mention "fuck the second", I climb with someone who's almost 4 inches taller and when he places a piece at his reach I have to do an extra move to pull it and it's usually not a good stance. I have to constantly remind him that I'm shorter than he is.
I have the exact opposite situation: I'm 5'10" and my wife is 5'1", I lead everything and she cleans.
I have to do my best to place gear no more than eye-level so she'll have a good chance of being able to clean it without throwing a fit.
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jacques
Oct 23, 2012, 4:09 PM
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cracklover wrote: To expand a little on the "it depends" answer: OK, you're at a good stance, with options. Here's how I choose. I mean I don't really go through all this in my head, but I'm spelling out what is a near-instant process.
a little different than you on the way I choose a nuts placement.
first, I make a difference between a rest and a nut placement. A rest is for me a pace to rest. I can make one or two move, look at a placement, climb down to the rest, prepare my nuts, climb to a placement and set the nuts, down climb and my last safety doing is to clip the rope to the nuts.
Second, I decide where to place my next pro from the nuts that I just place. I make a theorical approximation whit the fall factor, after I look if I am going to fall on some thing and finally, I decide where is the higher place I can go before bailing.
When I know that, than I climb. Some times, I just take a look I climb up and down to see where i will go. Onsighting is very chalenging for that reason, but also very interesting
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surfstar
Oct 23, 2012, 8:05 PM
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jacques wrote: cracklover wrote: To expand a little on the "it depends" answer: OK, you're at a good stance, with options. Here's how I choose. I mean I don't really go through all this in my head, but I'm spelling out what is a near-instant process. a little different than you on the way I choose a nuts placement. first, I make a difference between a rest and a nut placement. A rest is for me a pace to rest. I can make one or two move, look at a placement, climb down to the rest, prepare my nuts, climb to a placement and set the nuts, down climb and my last safety doing is to clip the rope to the nuts. Second, I decide where to place my next pro from the nuts that I just place. I make a theorical approximation whit the fall factor, after I look if I am going to fall on some thing and finally, I decide where is the higher place I can go before bailing. When I know that, than I climb. Some times, I just take a look I climb up and down to see where i will go. Onsighting is very chalenging for that reason, but also very interesting
How often does your belayer fall asleep?
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