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camhead
Oct 30, 2012, 1:19 PM
Post #26 of 31
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Registered: Sep 10, 2001
Posts: 20939
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marc801 wrote: That's because most climbing on the east coast - certainly the major destination areas - like the rest of the country, is on public/park land. The Gunks is unique in that it's a privately owned land preserve held in public trust (meaning the public has a right to use it if they pay the current land use fee). Do you consider paying an entry fee to any of the national parks or monuments or the state parks (eg: Eldorado Canyon in CO or Snow Canyon in UT) as paying to climb?
Actually, a significant chunk of Eastern climbing is on private and/or public trust property. Way more than out West.
In addition to the Gunks, you've got, Horsepens 40, Little Rock City, Laurel Knob, NC, HCR, and the bulk of the Red River Gorge's sport climbs are all on some sort of non-public land. Some you have to pay to climb at, others you don't.
As for the Gunks, I personally have no problem paying the fee. It's New York, everything's expensive there.
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happiegrrrl
Oct 30, 2012, 4:07 PM
Post #27 of 31
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Registered: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 4660
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I have a friend who comes to the Gunks once or twice a year. She has spent enough days here the last two years that she *just* saves by getting the annual pass. Like she is one day more over the break even point.
She and I were having the discussion that this thread has taken, and she said "Terri, you KNOW $17 a day is a lot to pay to climb."
My reply was that she might try to change her perspective, and understand that she is not actually paying to climb, per se, but to support the conservation of this massive section of land in a very vulnerable location. That her support helps create a safe environment for plants and animals to thrive. Plants and animals which would never survive if this land were developed.
That supporting the Preserve helps keep a special space where people the world over can come to have a wonderful time in a natural setting. Where they can learn about the history of this area, and learn about environmental conservation both experientially and through preserve programs, if they have the desire to do so.
She said "You know - I never thought of it that way. I just realized that I have such and such amount automatically deducted from my checking account each month(which added up to $250 a year) to support Such and Such organization, and all I get from them is newsletters by email and requests for donations."
Support the preserve, and you are supporting something much larger than a day of climbing. IF that doesn't mean anything to someone - I have no trouble saying that I could give a rat's ass that they don't like paying the day fee.
Even so - people sneak in to this place all the frigging time. It's actually extremely easy to do. A response might be "I don't want to sneak in" and that's certainly understandable. One can also get an annual Volunteers Pass by donating 40 hours of volunteerism to the preserve.
Personally - I buy an annual pass, even though I volunteer - oh I have no idea how many hours a year. Have done about 5 hours every Sunday in season since fall of 2005. I renewed my pass about two months ago, despite that my income is about 10K.year. It would be very easy for me to avoid doing this. I haven't had my pass checked for years. But I want to be part of the great thing that is the Mohonk Preserve, and want to support it in the small way that I can.
$90 a year comes down to just under 25 cents per day.
Is a quarter per day too much to sacrifice knowing that you are part of what makes an ecosystem viable for fungus, plants, fish, insects, birds, and many other animals? For supporting an ecosystem which scientists are able to study in ways that help them understand our environment? For supporting a place where educational groups can come to learn about natural life? To support a place where you can recreate? Because without that 25 cents, per day, the cliffs would not be there for that one day somebody else wants to come and climb, even though they will pay $17?
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jeff59
Oct 30, 2012, 9:07 PM
Post #28 of 31
(1068 views)
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Registered: May 20, 2005
Posts: 9
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Happiegirrl; Plus many stars to you-- I couldn't agree more; the Preserve is a gift to all of us from the Smiley family and all those who contribute money (through day or annual passes and or time)-- I'm about to renew my pass for the next year which will make 48 years straight--my friends and I get far more use and immediate pleasure from the existence of the Mohonk Preserve than from any other conservation support we may give.
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robx
Nov 1, 2012, 9:20 PM
Post #29 of 31
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Registered: Jan 11, 2011
Posts: 108
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I think a lot of people aren't in a place where they can spare $100, and if they are, the pay camping is definitely just another fee that's getting added on, and deters from the likelihood that I'll be able to afford climbing as often.
One of the things that I loved about climbing was that once the initial expenses were incurred (which happened over a long period of time), the only money I ever had to spend was on gas money or food. It's wonderful that this money is being put to such positive uses, but there comes a point when I'd rather eat a meal then save a fungus.
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funnelator
Nov 5, 2012, 5:10 PM
Post #30 of 31
(963 views)
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Registered: Nov 30, 2005
Posts: 83
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jakedatc wrote: i considered the free camping part of the cost of the daily/year pass. it has lost a lot of it's value now. Other areas are now even more cost effective.
By all means climb somewhere else then. No need to whine about how the mix of costs and services doesn't cater to your personal needs. Go climb somewhere that suits you better.
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budman
Nov 5, 2012, 9:16 PM
Post #31 of 31
(930 views)
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Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 170
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Haven't been to Gunks in a few years but camping was limited to Multi-abuse area, Camp Slime and MP parking lots(of which I was kicked out of). Years before moving west, Slime, Slime Road, The AMC as well as the area adjacent to The Multi Abuse Area were common haunts for the climbers like myself. They are being eliminated and that rite of passage for the generations of climbers cutting there teeth at The Gunks will no longer be.
I guess what I'm feeling is that a part of history is being lost. I was in The Valley in '97 when the park service tried to develop camp 4 for housing. Climbers banded together and urged the agencies to keep it as a historical site. Possibly such an approach might work here.
Whether you want to pay the fee or not (I gladly do for the privilege of climbing there) or want to bed down in Camp Slime for a night is totally up to you. The Gunks is special no matter how you look at it and is a large part of climbing history. It's been named # 1 climbing place in the world many times by the climbing mags. Hopefully these small areas the climbers frequent won't be lost forever.
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