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summitseeker91
Feb 1, 2013, 2:16 AM
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What are thoughts on using New England's Polyester accessory cord for prusiks? Rated at 9.8kn and 7mm, it seems strong enough but I am having a very hard time finding much information on how they compare to nylon cords in regards to friction knots. Anybody else have any experience? The cord also seem a little stiff and not as supple as desired for prusiks, or atleast that is my understanding. Thoughts? Comments?
note: I also did a search on this forum and others for any info on the matter with no avail.
(This post was edited by summitseeker91 on Feb 1, 2013, 2:17 AM)
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wivanoff
Feb 1, 2013, 2:49 AM
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Why?
Is there something wrong with a few dollars worth of nylon?
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summitseeker91
Feb 1, 2013, 3:37 AM
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My question was not posed to ask if it is worth saving money to buy one material over the other. They cost nearly the same. Rather, I wanted to see others views of Polyester vs. Nylon in the use of prusik or other friction type knots. Just wanting to learn for learning's sake.
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dan2see
Feb 1, 2013, 4:06 AM
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summitseeker91 wrote: What are thoughts on using New England's Polyester accessory cord for prusiks? Rated at 9.8kn and 7mm, it seems strong enough but I am having a very hard time finding much information on how they compare to nylon cords in regards to friction knots. Anybody else have any experience? The cord also seem a little stiff and not as supple as desired for prusiks, or atleast that is my understanding. Thoughts? Comments? note: I also did a search on this forum and others for any info on the matter with no avail.
A forum as broad and experienced as rockclimbing.com is certainly a great place to search for this kind of information. You can rely on the consensus.
But you are mistaken to say that your search was with no avail. In fact you found a solid, positive fact: nobody does that!
In this thread of yours, you'll probably get some technical discussions about melting points, or better friction knots. Or predictions like "Yer gonna die".
But the result you found is really important: nobody does that!
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summitseeker91
Feb 1, 2013, 4:29 AM
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By no avail I mean that I found a lack of information. I wasn't sure if the fact that no one uses polyester for prusiks is due to the fact that its not a good idea, or if it was because the product is fairly new. But thanks for the thoughts!
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dan2see
Feb 1, 2013, 6:50 AM
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summitseeker91 wrote: By no avail I mean that I found a lack of information. I wasn't sure if the fact that no one uses polyester for prusiks is due to the fact that its not a good idea, or if it was because the product is fairly new. But thanks for the thoughts!
Your "lack of information" was not a lack. It was actually "no information".
Nobody does that.
Nobody.
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shimanilami
Feb 1, 2013, 7:40 AM
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I remember when that stuff came out. I'm pretty sure the word from New England was that it could be used for all the same applications as nylon, and that it had several advantages (e.g. hydrophobic). It's main disadvantage is that it's static.
Don't trust my fuzzy recollection, though. Why not contact New England directly and ask them yourself?
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dan2see
Feb 1, 2013, 8:57 AM
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New England Ropes main website is at New England Ropes.
The site presents a lot of technical information about their products.
They cover Polyester on a PDF: "Performance Tested Climbing Ropes"
New England Climbing Ropes wrote: Our Nylon Accessory Cords feature a kernmantle construction designed and engineered with the same attention to detail as our dynamic climbing ropes. Nylon accessory cord is a perfect multi-purpose line for stringing accessories, keeping personal items off the ground, tie-down ropes, or as a decorative accessory for packs or other gear. All nylon accessory cords meet the EN564 standard for kernmantle ropes, and the OD Green and Black product in 7mm, and 8mm also conform to MIL-A-A-50139B Type I, II, and III requirements for military use. Available in 6 diameters and 14 colors. Each diameter is available in complementary light and dark versions as well as black. Our Polyester Accessory Cord offers the best of both worlds. Polyester resists water, has less stretch, has super vibrant colors, and has greater UV resistance. Polyester is also more durable than nylon and its lower stretch offers more abrasion resistance. The Polyester Accessory Cord carries UIAA 102 and EN 564 certification. Our nylon Prusik Cord strikes the perfect balance between firm and supple. We engineered prusik cord so that the rope has enough give to grip the climbing rope but is not so mushy that the knot locks up. This results in a smooth, controlled movement over the climbing rope and makes untying the prusik knot easier. Prusik cord is available in 6mm to 9mm diameters, each available in two complementary light and dark patterns.
Of course the PDF has pretty pictures of these rope choices.
You should have looked for this, before posting this thread.
And I should have looked for this, before I butted in.
The New England Ropes PDF does not tell you that you can use Polyester cord for a prusik, or that you cannot. The product complies with UIAA 102 for accessory cord, but not UIAA 101 for climbing ropes.
On the other hand, they are very clear that their own "Prusik Cord" is perfect for you.
My own feeling about New England Ropes is that the company has been in the business of making quality, high-performance ropes for specific applications. I trust their ropes entirely, and I use them with confidence for the uses the rope was designed for.
In other words, I recommend that you tie your prusik with the same static cord that your friends use. Or maybe even buy NE's special prusik stuff -- it's gotta be good!
Don't be a pioneer with safety on the rocks. Use the same knots, the same ropes, the same gear as your friends use.
(Edit to add...)
My own main rope is NE Apex 10.2 STD-DRY Green/Yellow. I think it's the absolute best rope for climbing on Canadian Rockies limestone, especially trad.
I don't know the brand of my static 7-mm prusik/cordelette, but it works very well, too.
(This post was edited by dan2see on Feb 1, 2013, 9:12 AM)
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dan2see
Feb 1, 2013, 4:47 PM
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One more word of caution:
The OP's scenario asks about tying a polyester prusik on a nylon climbing rope, for rapel.
New England's own literature does not tell you anything about friction, or abrasion, with polyester on nylon. They simply don't tell.
What happens when your prusik heats up, while sliding down? It won't conduct heat away, like your descender gadget. Is this a problem for your rope? You don't know.
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summitseeker91
Feb 1, 2013, 5:33 PM
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The only reason I even began wondering about making prusiks from polyester cord, is because I found that it does seem to have a present use among arborists. Totally different sport/career, but they do seem to use polyester prusiks on nylon ropes commonly. I failed to mention that in the OP. I also have seen NE's lit. on their material and yes they are vague on use for polyester for friction knots. I simply wanted some climbers experience or thoughts on the matter.
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bearbreeder
Feb 1, 2013, 7:37 PM
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ask the manufacturer
it that simple
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patto
Feb 2, 2013, 12:30 AM
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bearbreeder wrote: ask the manufacturer it that simple
Unfortunately it really isn't that simple.
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bearbreeder
Feb 2, 2013, 1:21 AM
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patto wrote: bearbreeder wrote: ask the manufacturer it that simple Unfortunately it really isn't that simple.
it absolutely is .... new england ropes will tell you if its suitable for prussiks ... better than any RCer
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6pacfershur
Feb 2, 2013, 1:57 AM
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summitseeker91 wrote: .... Just wanting to learn for learning's sake.
you're on the wrong website for THAT....
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summitseeker91
Feb 2, 2013, 3:34 AM
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I'm on the wrong website to learn? And what makes you think that? Seems to me like a good place to learn. And even if I can not apply what I learn at this exact moment, I want to learn for future reference.
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dan2see
Feb 2, 2013, 4:26 AM
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summitseeker91 wrote: I'm on the wrong website to learn? And what makes you think that? Seems to me like a good place to learn. And even if I can not apply what I learn at this exact moment, I want to learn for future reference.
Oh, this is the right website alright! In these forums, you'll find just about everybody knows more than the other guy. How smart are we? We're full of it!
We should have a rule about commenting on threads like this. Something like, anyone with over 500 posts does not qualify. Maybe 100 max. Hmm. anyone with over 20 posts should keep their big mouth shut. No, 12. That would do it!
Then guys like SS91 would still get their questions, and answers. But the ever-correct uber-climbers would just have to sit on the sidelines and watch.
And learn something, too!
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Eddie2170
Feb 15, 2013, 6:02 AM
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summitseeker91 wrote: What are thoughts on using New England's Polyester accessory cord for prusiks? Rated at 9.8kn and 7mm, it seems strong enough but I am having a very hard time finding much information on how they compare to nylon cords in regards to friction knots. Anybody else have any experience? The cord also seem a little stiff and not as supple as desired for prusiks, or atleast that is my understanding. Thoughts? Comments? note: I also did a search on this forum and others for any info on the matter with no avail.
As a facilitator at a summer camp when I told my supplier that I needed accessory chord to be able to make prusiks they recommended and ordered 4 sets of the polyester chord for me.
I then made a set of prusiks for each counselor based on their preference for length (I prefer mine short) and they became personal gear along with an atc and such.
I personally liked them, when they were new they were actually quite slippery, I'm attributing that to the polyester vs nylon, so I used triple fishermans vs double because of that.
As far as stiffness I can see where you're coming from but I don't see it as a disadvantage, it wasnt anything beyond normal.
As far as friction knots, we used all fat ropes at the camp, very large like 10,7 being our skinniest and 11+ being the thickest, so with such a large rope it was definitely enough for the 7mm chord to bite on, I should have tried it on my personal rope but that wasn't a thought till now.
I do know however that the polyester chord, like stated above, is hydrophobic so it doesn't hold water so the strength isn't effected like nylon but also doesn't stretch, so essentially it's like spectra/dyneema but you can put knots in it
Again take what you want from that but that's my 2cents on the NE poly chords
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