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Is Rock Climbing Vandalism?
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Poll: Is Rock Climbing Vandalism?
Yes 9 / 18%
No 40 / 82%
49 total votes
 

guangzhou


Mar 7, 2013, 8:23 PM
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Rock Climbing Vandalism? [In reply to]
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I, and most people here, don't support vandalism.

So, the simple solution is, if you believe it's vandalism, quit climbing and ignore those who do it.

It's what most people do when it comes to vandalism in other areas of life.


jt512


Mar 7, 2013, 9:22 PM
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Registered: Apr 11, 2001
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Re: [guangzhou] Rock Climbing Vandalism? [In reply to]
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guangzhou wrote:
I, and most people here, don't support vandalism.

So, the simple solution is, if you believe it's vandalism, quit climbing and ignore those who do it.

It's what most people do when it comes to vandalism in other areas of life.

Profound, Dude.


Co1urzz


Mar 7, 2013, 11:16 PM
Post #28 of 53 (2832 views)
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Registered: Dec 17, 2011
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Re: [jon06] Is Rock Climbing Vandalism? [In reply to]
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thank you. covered all the bases on that one!


Partner oldsalt


Mar 8, 2013, 5:03 AM
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Re: [Co1urzz] Is Rock Climbing Vandalism? [In reply to]
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I have often climbed at Sandrock (AL), weekend home to what seems to be millions of drunken rednecks. Climbers, including myself, have put in many hours picking up beer bottles and condoms, removing spray paint (where possible), etc.

Most of the routes are for gear, and the top anchors are mostly not visible. If there were no climbers there, it would be a public sewer.

I'm proud to be part of a community that cares about leaving no trace, even if we cannot always do so.


sandstone


Mar 8, 2013, 12:32 PM
Post #30 of 53 (2765 views)
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Registered: Apr 21, 2004
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Re: [oldsalt] Is Rock Climbing Vandalism? [In reply to]
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oldsalt wrote:
... Sandrock (AL)....... If there were no climbers there, it would be a public sewer.

Not true.

I remember climbing at Sandrock before it was a climbing "destination", before there was a single bolt. It looked quite a bit different then than it does now. There is absolutely no doubt that it looked better then than it does now.

Probably most people nowadays think the eroded trails between the rocks has always looked like that. That's not so. Many of those areas had good soil and plants growing where now there are none (and the soil has completely washed away from some). That change was clearly due to climbers.

It is true that the place had some graffiti and trash before it became popular with climbers, and it is true that climbers have taken some steps to improve some aspects of the place, but on the whole there is no escaping the harsh reality that the place would have been better off without climbers. But I would not define those climber impacts as vandalism.

In reply to:
...the top anchors are mostly not visible.

??? There are bolts everywhere. There are chains. There are rust stains running down the rock from said chains. Again, not vandalism, but a visual impact for sure.

In reply to:
..I'm proud to be part of a community that cares about leaving no trace, even if we cannot always do so.

I think on the whole we can do better in that regard, and hopefully we will.


onceahardman


Mar 8, 2013, 2:50 PM
Post #31 of 53 (2748 views)
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Registered: Aug 3, 2007
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Re: [Co1urzz] Is Rock Climbing Vandalism? [In reply to]
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Is living in a house, instead of a thatch-roof lean-to, "vandalism"?

Is shitting in a flush toilet, instead of digging a pit toilet, or shitting on the dirt, "vandalism"?

Is driving a car, instead of riding a horse, and filling city streets with horseshit, "vandalism"?

Is having a reliable electrical grid, instead of making tallow candles so you can read at night, "vandalism"?

Is having water treatment plants, which supply potable water to most, "vandalism"?

I'm kind of tired of the attitude that everything that humans do is bad, or some kind of sin against Gaia.

And its not just me.


Co1urzz


Mar 8, 2013, 3:06 PM
Post #32 of 53 (2740 views)
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Re: [onceahardman] Is Rock Climbing Vandalism? [In reply to]
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as our population grows, many steps have been taken, and still more need to be taken, to create a hyper efficient realm where the ecosystems can continue to thrive whilst man still exists. and some of these steps are irrigation and electrical grids.


onceahardman


Mar 8, 2013, 3:39 PM
Post #33 of 53 (2731 views)
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Re: [Co1urzz] Is Rock Climbing Vandalism? [In reply to]
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Co1urzz wrote:
as our population grows, many steps have been taken, and still more need to be taken, to create a hyper efficient realm where the ecosystems can continue to thrive whilst man still exists. and some of these steps are irrigation and electrical grids.

I think any reasonable future "hyper efficient realm" would necessarily exclude rock climbing. It's not the most efficient way to get to the top of the hill. In fact, it is often the most difficult; that's what makes it fun.


You know, FUN.


Co1urzz


Mar 8, 2013, 4:23 PM
Post #34 of 53 (2717 views)
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Registered: Dec 17, 2011
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Re: [onceahardman] Is Rock Climbing Vandalism? [In reply to]
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Oh, im sorry, i was replying in context to your off topic comment.


onceahardman


Mar 8, 2013, 4:32 PM
Post #35 of 53 (2713 views)
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Re: [Co1urzz] Is Rock Climbing Vandalism? [In reply to]
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Co1urzz wrote:
Rocks for example, can be covered in a multitude of life, including moss, trees, and animals...do you consider the acquisitioning of rock for the new use being defined as "rockclimbing" a form of vandalism?

So, when a house gets built, rocks, moss, trees and animals are disturbed...acquisition of land for a new use. Yet my response is somehow, "off topic"?

Likewise, when I shit, or drive a car, or purchase potable water from my local water authority, moss and trees are disturbed. Is this vandalism? I think the question is very much on topic.

Maybe you just didn't think it that far through.


Co1urzz


Mar 8, 2013, 6:24 PM
Post #36 of 53 (2693 views)
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Registered: Dec 17, 2011
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Re: [onceahardman] Is Rock Climbing Vandalism? [In reply to]
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your hostility and extreme views are nothing but cancer, you dont have the ability to co exist as you have already shown.


Co1urzz


Mar 8, 2013, 6:28 PM
Post #37 of 53 (2688 views)
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Registered: Dec 17, 2011
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Re: [Co1urzz] Is Rock Climbing Vandalism? [In reply to]
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this post was nothing but a troll, to out all the assholes in the climbing community, and to point out how extreme and immature this group of "lostboys" really is. there are alot of good rockclimbers. but there are more lost boys.


onceahardman


Mar 8, 2013, 6:36 PM
Post #38 of 53 (2683 views)
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Re: [Co1urzz] Is Rock Climbing Vandalism? [In reply to]
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Co1urzz wrote:
this post was nothing but a troll, to out all the assholes in the climbing community, and to point out how extreme and immature this group of "lostboys" really is. there are alot of good rockclimbers. but there are more lost boys.

Well played.

You resort to namecalling, a common fallback for those who have no real argument.

You consider me as having "hostility", yet you show up on a rockclimbing forum asking if rockclimbing is vandalism. Psychologists might consider that "projection".

Try contributing something useful, rather than wasting time. You might actually find some fulfillment.


onceahardman


Mar 8, 2013, 6:37 PM
Post #39 of 53 (2680 views)
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Re: [Co1urzz] Is Rock Climbing Vandalism? [In reply to]
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Co1urzz wrote:
this post was nothing but a troll, to out all the assholes in the climbing community, and to point out how extreme and immature this group of "lostboys" really is. there are alot of good rockclimbers. but there are more lost boys.

If I was a mod, this "poll" would go to the campground.


6pacfershur


Mar 8, 2013, 7:28 PM
Post #40 of 53 (2667 views)
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Registered: Jun 22, 2010
Posts: 254

Re: [oldsalt] Is Rock Climbing Vandalism? [In reply to]
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oldsalt wrote:
....have put in many hours picking up....condoms....

ewwwwwwwww!


carabiner96


Mar 9, 2013, 7:31 AM
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Registered: Apr 10, 2006
Posts: 12610

Re: [Co1urzz] Is Rock Climbing Vandalism? [In reply to]
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Co1urzz wrote:
your hostility and extreme views are nothing but cancer, you dont have the ability to co exist as you have already shown.
Well, I'm a Libra.


carabiner96


Mar 9, 2013, 7:34 AM
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Re: [6pacfershur] Is Rock Climbing Vandalism? [In reply to]
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6pacfershur wrote:
oldsalt wrote:
....have put in many hours picking up....condoms....

ewwwwwwwww!
Whenever we would do campground or park clean ups as kids, I never knew what my dad meant when he said 'Watch out! A raincoat!' and swoop in and pick up the unseen.

I know what that means now, icky. My dad was a champ.


hugepedro


Mar 9, 2013, 10:07 AM
Post #43 of 53 (2615 views)
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Registered: May 28, 2002
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Re: [Co1urzz] Is Rock Climbing Vandalism? [In reply to]
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Co1urzz wrote:
this post was nothing but a troll, to out all the assholes in the climbing community, and to point out how extreme and immature this group of "lostboys" really is. there are alot of good rockclimbers. but there are more lost boys.

Well you certainly succeeded in outing 1 immature asshole.

Wait, I take that back. You used a Peter Pan reference. You don't make the asshole rank, you're just a dingleberry.


Partner oldsalt


Mar 9, 2013, 10:44 AM
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Re: [hugepedro] Is Rock Climbing Vandalism? [In reply to]
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I must believe that anyone critical if climbers at sandrock never saw it before climbers organized the cleanup weekends. Once I saw a pickup arrive and a local family of five got out with a picnic basket. As they started into the woods their little boy yelled "Wait Daddy. You forgot the spray paint!"

I wish I was making that up.


funk


Mar 11, 2013, 10:03 AM
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Re: [oldsalt] Is Rock Climbing Vandalism? [In reply to]
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Yesterday at Haycock Mtn (PA), some lady hiking asked to use some of our chalk. we asked why. she responded "to cover up some graffiti". We said, "yeah, those swastikas all over the boulders on the trail are pretty offensive, but this chalk will wash away". She says, " i didn't mean those, i meant the anti-god graffiti", referring to "I (heart) Satan".

That reminds me, next time i'm up there, i need to bring a can of spray paint to cover up the swastikas, and to put exclaimation marks at the end of "I (heart) satan.

Apparently the lady is cool wtih genocide and her local neo-nazi faction. POS hick.
and yes, i am one of the chosen people, so F her even more.


Partner oldsalt


Mar 11, 2013, 11:10 AM
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Re: [funk] Is Rock Climbing Vandalism? [In reply to]
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You did say, "Lady"? Don't these people realize that the Nazis also killed Christians...and performed abortions in their "research"? It is easier to fix ugly than ignorant.


curt


Mar 11, 2013, 3:08 PM
Post #47 of 53 (2496 views)
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Re: [Co1urzz] Is Rock Climbing Vandalism? [In reply to]
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Co1urzz wrote:
this post was nothing but a troll...

...and a poor one at that.

Curt


6pacfershur


Mar 11, 2013, 6:13 PM
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Re: [funk] Is Rock Climbing Vandalism? [In reply to]
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funk wrote:
....That reminds me, next time i'm up there, i need to bring a can of spray paint to cover up the swastikas, and to put exclaimation marks at the end of "I (heart) satan....

just remember to pick up your "raincoats"....


shockabuku


Mar 11, 2013, 6:47 PM
Post #49 of 53 (2466 views)
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Re: [Co1urzz] Is Rock Climbing Vandalism? [In reply to]
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Co1urzz wrote:
Rocks for example, can be covered in a multitude of life, including moss, trees, and animals...do you consider the acquisitioning of rock for the new use being defined as "rockclimbing" a form of vandalism?

The impression I get is that you should consider the actions of any living species to be an act of vandalism. What's the point?


kalen666


Mar 11, 2013, 10:38 PM
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Re: [edge] Is Rock Climbing Vandalism? [In reply to]
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agreed, perfectly pristine cliff line desecrated with the images of former tyrants. the black foot indian tribe must love staring up at that.

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