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mojomonkey
Mar 19, 2013, 4:59 PM
Post #1 of 12
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Registered: Aug 13, 2006
Posts: 869
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Somebody needs to take a serious look at the utility of the route database here. Some issues to consider:
Needing approval for changes but section/area managers don't get around to approving (example 1, example 2). I've personally added routes/areas to Mountain Project but not here because it was just easier there.
Ability to sort / search routes, and just the general organization and presentation of the data. Look at the Trapps at the Gunks as an example. Duplicate numbers, un-numbered entries, 8 pages to click through looking for a route. From that page if I want to search a grade range I'd think I could try "advanced search". While that takes me to a page where grade range search is possible, it defaults to "all locations". The best I can get in that unwieldy list is to search New York. The results then don't seem to include user rating info, or sorting options, or ...
The actual route pages just don't seem to convey info in a useful way to me. You have to click to get to all ascent notes, then click through multiple pages. Seems like lots of wasted space and clicking. I prefer the mountain project method of separating the "tick" info, grade suggestions, ratings, and comments. People will add contentless ascents just to put it on their ticklist, making it difficult to find a discussion about the route. And I don't bother maintaining a tick list so never bother to comment on our rate routes since that requires ticking it. Or if I ticked it but wanted to add a new comment later... Tying all those things together just doesn't seem optimal to me.
The photo section for routes needs update too. A 75x75 thumbnail seems too small, probably a leftover choice from dialup days. And options to view/sort besides most recent (highest rated, most comments, most views) would be nicer.
Trying to get info out of the database is a chore too. An ability to generate a printable guide/PDF would be great. Otherwise I'd be stuck trying to copy and paste info elsewhere for an area.
It just seems like the route DB is a huge driver for the utility of a climbing website and the one here has been neglected for a long time. Mountainproject.com is so much more friendly and usable. I wouldn't want a straight up copy - thoughts about new features would create some helpful competition and hopefully improve both. As it is though, it is telling that when there is a question about a route or area in the forums, users often post links to mountain project. It happens today, and has been since at least 2006.
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mojomonkey
Mar 21, 2013, 2:32 PM
Post #2 of 12
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Registered: Aug 13, 2006
Posts: 869
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Any "powers that be" out there? Just letting that all soak in?
Seriously though, it would be nice if someone drops in to say whether you are even considering changes so I and others know if it is worth the time to type up feedback or a feature wishlist.
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notapplicable
Mar 24, 2013, 8:13 PM
Post #3 of 12
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Registered: Aug 31, 2006
Posts: 17771
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While I and just about everyone else agrees with you, nothing is going to be done. This site is on cruise control. Unless you enjoy talking shit with the current cast of characters, you should go set up shop at MP, because thats all this place has to offer and that is not going to change any time soon.
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edge
Mar 26, 2013, 8:13 PM
Post #4 of 12
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Registered: Apr 14, 2003
Posts: 9120
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Mojo, I completely agree with you. Years ago when I joined the site I added 100s of climbs in NH to the site, all of which i had personally climbed, and then assumed the job of Area Manager. After a ton of work, there was a format change that screwed up all of my work, and the new format was anything but intuitive. I had neither the time, computer skills, or inclination to fix it, and so it stays. If someone wants the job of NH Area Manager, please take it with my blessings...
Add to that the fact that anyone can edit the route description, whether they have climbed if or not, and then they are listed as the named contributor. Some of the info was outright incorrect, and someone actually took my work and made one or two word changes so that they became the contributor of record; this happened to scores of my additions. I really don't care, personally, but it discourages others from adding content.
Because of these difficulties, and the excruciating photo upload process, the routes DB has fallen far, far behind more streamlined sites like MP. I have been personally using MP to document most of my FAs and ticks because of its ease of use and relative completeness of areas and routes. Their ap which allows you to download the content to your phone is a great resource.
The admins have dropped hints about future overhauls, but to be truthful they are rarely present on the site these days. I submitted my resignation as a mod weeks ago, and still have not received a reply. I am hopeful that they are working on a major overhaul, but really I have no idea.
I feel your pain.
(This post was edited by edge on Mar 26, 2013, 8:18 PM)
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notapplicable
Mar 29, 2013, 3:59 PM
Post #5 of 12
(11223 views)
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Registered: Aug 31, 2006
Posts: 17771
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The fact that users don't even care enough to come in S&F and bash the admin and bitch about how much the site sucks anymore, is another sign of the decline. We used to be able to get some pretty good shit fits thrown in here. Now - *Crickets*
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rrrADAM
Mar 30, 2013, 3:21 PM
Post #6 of 12
(11206 views)
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Registered: Dec 19, 1999
Posts: 17553
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Unfortunately, a LOT has changed over the years... The RDP was pretty solid about 5-7 years ago... VERY active Area Managers, and no need for approvals.
(This post was edited by rrrADAM on Mar 30, 2013, 3:21 PM)
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cracklover
Apr 3, 2013, 6:18 PM
Post #8 of 12
(11133 views)
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Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10162
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mojomonkey wrote: Somebody needs to take a serious look at the utility of the route database here. Some issues to consider: Needing approval for changes but section/area managers don't get around to approving (example 1, example 2). I've personally added routes/areas to Mountain Project but not here because it was just easier there.
Ability to sort / search routes, and just the general organization and presentation of the data. Look at the Trapps at the Gunks as an example. Duplicate numbers, un-numbered entries, 8 pages to click through looking for a route. From that page if I want to search a grade range I'd think I could try "advanced search". While that takes me to a page where grade range search is possible, it defaults to "all locations". The best I can get in that unwieldy list is to search New York. The results then don't seem to include user rating info, or sorting options, or ...
The actual route pages just don't seem to convey info in a useful way to me. You have to click to get to all ascent notes, then click through multiple pages. Seems like lots of wasted space and clicking. I prefer the mountain project method of separating the "tick" info, grade suggestions, ratings, and comments. People will add contentless ascents just to put it on their ticklist, making it difficult to find a discussion about the route. And I don't bother maintaining a tick list so never bother to comment on our rate routes since that requires ticking it. Or if I ticked it but wanted to add a new comment later... Tying all those things together just doesn't seem optimal to me.
The photo section for routes needs update too. A 75x75 thumbnail seems too small, probably a leftover choice from dialup days. And options to view/sort besides most recent (highest rated, most comments, most views) would be nicer.
Trying to get info out of the database is a chore too. An ability to generate a printable guide/PDF would be great. Otherwise I'd be stuck trying to copy and paste info elsewhere for an area.
It just seems like the route DB is a huge driver for the utility of a climbing website and the one here has been neglected for a long time. Mountainproject.com is so much more friendly and usable. I wouldn't want a straight up copy - thoughts about new features would create some helpful competition and hopefully improve both. As it is though, it is telling that when there is a question about a route or area in the forums, users often post links to mountain project. It happens today, and has been since at least 2006.
Agree with all of the above. I actually started, years ago, to put all my ticks in rc.com. I went through the pain of figuring out how to download them into my own personal excel sheet periodically. And so it's easier for me to add new routes here when the route I do isn't in the DB (which happens often) than to switch my whole system over to MP.
With that said, the system here bites. I would be happy to be involved in helping to fix it up, if the site admins seriously want to improve it.
But I'm not holding my breath.
GO
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lena_chita
Moderator
Apr 8, 2013, 2:24 PM
Post #9 of 12
(11040 views)
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Registered: Jun 27, 2006
Posts: 6087
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cracklover wrote: mojomonkey wrote: Somebody needs to take a serious look at the utility of the route database here. Some issues to consider: Needing approval for changes but section/area managers don't get around to approving (example 1, example 2). I've personally added routes/areas to Mountain Project but not here because it was just easier there.
Ability to sort / search routes, and just the general organization and presentation of the data. Look at the Trapps at the Gunks as an example. Duplicate numbers, un-numbered entries, 8 pages to click through looking for a route. From that page if I want to search a grade range I'd think I could try "advanced search". While that takes me to a page where grade range search is possible, it defaults to "all locations". The best I can get in that unwieldy list is to search New York. The results then don't seem to include user rating info, or sorting options, or ...
The actual route pages just don't seem to convey info in a useful way to me. You have to click to get to all ascent notes, then click through multiple pages. Seems like lots of wasted space and clicking. I prefer the mountain project method of separating the "tick" info, grade suggestions, ratings, and comments. People will add contentless ascents just to put it on their ticklist, making it difficult to find a discussion about the route. And I don't bother maintaining a tick list so never bother to comment on our rate routes since that requires ticking it. Or if I ticked it but wanted to add a new comment later... Tying all those things together just doesn't seem optimal to me.
The photo section for routes needs update too. A 75x75 thumbnail seems too small, probably a leftover choice from dialup days. And options to view/sort besides most recent (highest rated, most comments, most views) would be nicer.
Trying to get info out of the database is a chore too. An ability to generate a printable guide/PDF would be great. Otherwise I'd be stuck trying to copy and paste info elsewhere for an area.
It just seems like the route DB is a huge driver for the utility of a climbing website and the one here has been neglected for a long time. Mountainproject.com is so much more friendly and usable. I wouldn't want a straight up copy - thoughts about new features would create some helpful competition and hopefully improve both. As it is though, it is telling that when there is a question about a route or area in the forums, users often post links to mountain project. It happens today, and has been since at least 2006.Agree with all of the above. I actually started, years ago, to put all my ticks in rc.com. I went through the pain of figuring out how to download them into my own personal excel sheet periodically. And so it's easier for me to add new routes here when the route I do isn't in the DB (which happens often) than to switch my whole system over to MP. With that said, the system here bites. I would be happy to be involved in helping to fix it up, if the site admins seriously want to improve it. But I'm not holding my breath. GO
+1
As the situation is right now, if you find multiple entries for the same route in different sections, etc, even the area managers cannot merge those entrees, if each entry has some comments/recorded ascents. the only ones who can merge these route entries are ddt/xtremecat.
I have contacted ddt about specific duplicate route entries (because it offends my sense of order, LOL!), and he has made changes.
But there are way too many such duplicate entries (I just found the entire sections duplicated, sometimes with the same routes entered at different grades, sometimes with one-letter misspellings, etc. at the Obed).
I thought of asking ddt to fix them, and then just let it go. It would be extremely confusing for someone who has not been to the area/has not seen the guidebook to try and make sense of which entries should be kept, which ones should be merged, and which ones should be deleted.
The problem is, I started using the rockclimbing.com database as my climbing log many years ago, and the idea of manually entering it all into the mp database is kind of daunting and best reserved for the time when I have way too much time on my hand, e.i. never.
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dr_feelgood
Apr 11, 2013, 4:31 AM
Post #10 of 12
(10994 views)
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Registered: Apr 6, 2004
Posts: 26060
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notapplicable wrote: The fact that users don't even care enough to come in S&F and bash the admin and bitch about how much the site sucks anymore, is another sign of the decline. We used to be able to get some pretty good shit fits thrown in here. Now - *Crickets*
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notapplicable
Apr 12, 2013, 2:20 AM
Post #11 of 12
(10969 views)
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Registered: Aug 31, 2006
Posts: 17771
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lena_chita wrote: The problem is, I started using the rockclimbing.com database as my climbing log many years ago, and the idea of manually entering it all into the mp database is kind of daunting and best reserved for the time when I have way too much time on my hand, e.i. never.
Whats the point in having children if you can't make them perform your menial tasks for you? Put those kids to work!
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roninthorne
Nov 6, 2013, 5:19 PM
Post #12 of 12
(9869 views)
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Registered: Nov 27, 2002
Posts: 659
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Want good area managers? Start by finding out who put up most of the newest routes and who organized trail work and clean up sessions. get in touch with them and offer them a premium membership for overseeing the db on their crag.
Get a few names for each crag so that there are back-ups and fallbacks. You get personal info, personal attention, and accurate names and grades.
Require EVERY entry of a new line, face, or crag to be accompanied by location, directions, and logistics, or the form will not submit. Allow editors/managers the ability to chop existing areas, faces, and line entries that fail to fulfill those requirements.
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