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parseeker
Apr 9, 2013, 3:18 PM
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I'm confused about rappelling. How do people rappel several times down the rock face and still end the climb with all of their gear from the anchors? Surely people don't leave hexes, nuts and cams in the rock every time they rappel. How does one rappel safely, but cheaply as well? What's generally the gear that is left behind, if any?
(This post was edited by parseeker on Apr 9, 2013, 3:23 PM)
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edge
Apr 9, 2013, 3:32 PM
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parseeker wrote: I'm confused about rappelling. How do people rappel several times down the rock face and still end the climb with all of their gear from the anchors? Surely people don't leave hexes, nuts and cams in the rock every time they rappel. How does one rappel safely, but cheaply as well? What's generally the gear that is left behind, if any?
Sometimes there are fixed anchors, sometimes there are not.
If the route you are on does not have anchors, then maybe rap a nearby line that does, just don't rap over a party on their way up.
If there are no anchors and you can't walk off, you leave what you need to get down safely; gear is a lot less expensive than a hospital stay or funeral.
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milesenoell
Apr 9, 2013, 3:36 PM
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Bolt anchors are pretty common even in areas that have a clean climbing ethic. If there is no bolt anchor it will usually be a loop of webbing with a rap ring slung around a horn. If there is nowhere to sling a horn then you have to decide how much gear you need to feel safe, and rap off of that.
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ecade
Apr 9, 2013, 4:17 PM
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Agree with the Bear,
IMHO rappelling is probably the most dangerous part of climbing
caterus parebus, (you are a safe climber, climbing with no people on top of your to kick rocks, good weather on a G rated route and you know how to and do place pro at proper intervals. Yes free soloiing well above your grade or climbing R and X rated routes etc... can be more dangerous)
Rappelling is an instances where you have fewer redundancy and you're handing yourself over to the anchors and the rope.
Definately find someone to teach you and personally, my climbing partner think I'm annoying for it but, I ONLY EVER RAP WITH A PRUSSIK. I think a prussik creates two independant connections (albeit to the same thing) to the rope and in that there is redundancy.
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bearbreeder
Apr 9, 2013, 4:48 PM
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ecade wrote: I ONLY EVER RAP WITH A PRUSSIK. I think a prussik creates two independant connections (albeit to the same thing) to the rope and in that there is redundancy.
you should be fully proficient with and WITHOUT a prussic .. and well practiced either way ...
i posted this somewhere else
there is nothing wrong with a safety knot below the rappel ...
the problem is with all the newbies who use em ALL the time without regard for circumstances thinking itll make em "safe"
you should know and be well versed in rappelling without a prussic/autoblock, etc ... as you may well end up without it at the top of the climb ... your rappelling should be confident and smooth without it ... many newbies i see cant rappel smoothly regardless, and they think that slowly jerking down the line, bumping all over the place is normal ... its not ... they never practice rapping without the prussic
you should learn and practice the various methods to go hands free without the prussic ... and be fully proficient in at least one of em ... one of these days youll be without one
on long multi raps, if you put a prussic on EVERY rappel, youre slowing things down ... the better idea is the first person uses a prussic, gets to the anchor and uses a firemans for the others ... to a large degree speed is safety on long multis
learn the kleimheist, its works with sling ... one of these days youll forget your cord and all youll have are slings
even with a prussic, its good practice to back up a hands free with leg wraps or other such ... at least one person has screwed up and thought he was "hands free" like the video below
http://www.youtube.com/...ed&v=3T4FT2SHFLo
in short ... you should be fully proficient with and WITHOUT the prussic
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unsunken
Apr 9, 2013, 4:53 PM
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bearbreeder wrote: parseeker wrote: I'm confused about rappelling. How do people rappel several times down the rock face and still end the climb with all of their gear from the anchors? Surely people don't leave hexes, nuts and cams in the rock every time they rappel. How does one rappel safely, but cheaply as well? What's generally the gear that is left behind, if any? i would advise finding a real live experienced person who can answer your questions and show you how to rap safely learning rapping skills off the intrawebs aint something that one really wants to do ive seen some very bad results 
Agree with the sentiment about learning from a real person, but to me this question is a common curiosity after you've already know how to rap.
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marc801
Apr 9, 2013, 7:15 PM
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unsunken wrote: bearbreeder wrote: parseeker wrote: I'm confused about rappelling. How do people rappel several times down the rock face and still end the climb with all of their gear from the anchors? Surely people don't leave hexes, nuts and cams in the rock every time they rappel. How does one rappel safely, but cheaply as well? What's generally the gear that is left behind, if any? i would advise finding a real live experienced person who can answer your questions and show you how to rap safely learning rapping skills off the intrawebs aint something that one really wants to do ive seen some very bad results Agree with the sentiment about learning from a real person, but to me this question is a common curiosity after you've already know how to rap.
The OP isn't asking how to rappel - he's asking about the concept of multiple rappels and what happens to the anchor.
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bearbreeder
Apr 9, 2013, 7:24 PM
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marc801 wrote: +1 The OP isn't asking how to rappel - he's asking about the concept of multiple rappels and what happens to the anchor.
How does one rappel safely, but cheaply as well?
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amarius
Apr 9, 2013, 7:30 PM
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The Climbing Magazine has a decent skill library, take a look at it here
This one, on improvised rappel anchors, looks quite relevant.
Perhaps some questions will be answered?
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Winemaker
Apr 9, 2013, 7:47 PM
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Yikes! I'm a newbie and I've also been feeling some mortality vibes with rappelling, so I rigged a short climb and rap station about 20 feet up my huge Sycamore tree; I've been able to practice, with non-fatal consequences, setting an anchor and rapping in the backyard . I've been using a klemheist blocker tied with a short runner and a short extension of the ATC for clearance. This seems to work well and I have a bit more confidence I won't make stupid mistakes. I've also been able to practice prussicing (sp) which may come in useful.
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Ruff_Dog
Apr 10, 2013, 7:23 PM
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I'm another noob, but I've rap'd once before..and I was wondering is there really a difference, when rapping, between a figure 8, a rescue 8, and an ATC/Tube-style device?
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bearbreeder
Apr 10, 2013, 7:50 PM
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Ruff_Dog wrote: I'm another noob, but I've rap'd once before..and I was wondering is there really a difference, when rapping, between a figure 8, a rescue 8, and an ATC/Tube-style device?
yes there is ... i suggest you get real live experienced instruction to show you how its done with each one
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Kartessa
Apr 10, 2013, 8:20 PM
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bearbreeder wrote: Ruff_Dog wrote: I'm another noob, but I've rap'd once before..and I was wondering is there really a difference, when rapping, between a figure 8, a rescue 8, and an ATC/Tube-style device? yes there is ... i suggest you get real live experienced instruction to show you how its done with each one
Holy shit... for once I agree with this guy
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Ruff_Dog
Apr 11, 2013, 12:54 AM
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Does it feel different? Or what? I'm just curious, and of course, I'll try to find someone to show me.
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milesenoell
Apr 11, 2013, 6:44 PM
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The resistance is different with each device.
Figure 8 devices offer the least resistance which can make for smooth descents but are harder to lock off. Rescue 8's offer some extra nubs to create greater resistance.
ATCs and other tube devices offer higher resistance and are thus safer and easier for many people to stop a fall, but the ride tends to be less smooth.
Since ropes have moved in the direction of skinny and slick it's rare to find anyone climbing with an 8. Having one on your harness generally means you are ex-military or a sport rappeller.
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Ruff_Dog
Apr 11, 2013, 11:17 PM
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Ah, that makes sense. Why does the ATC/Tube-style have more resistance? Is it the materials? Is it the friction grooves? Oh, speaking of them, do they help? I'm sorry for all the questions, I'm just curious.
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majid_sabet
Apr 11, 2013, 11:50 PM
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milesenoell wrote: The resistance is different with each device. Figure 8 devices offer the least resistance which can make for smooth descents but are harder to lock off. Rescue 8's offer some extra nubs to create greater resistance. ATCs and other tube devices offer higher resistance and are thus safer and easier for many people to stop a fall, but the ride tends to be less smooth. Since ropes have moved in the direction of skinny and slick it's rare to find anyone climbing with an 8. Having one on your harness generally means you are ex-military or a sport rappeller.
Actually ATC offers less resistance since rope travel pattern in to and out of ATC and tube type rap devices are very much fixed therefor, there is so much resistance you can get out of them where on 8s, you can use different resistance pattern to increase resistance
Also, most climbers who never used 8s do not know that the small hole on the 8 actually works just like a tube type belay. In addition, 8s will take any size rope where tube type are limited to certain size rope.
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csproul
Apr 12, 2013, 2:17 AM
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milesenoell wrote: The resistance is different with each device. Figure 8 devices offer the least resistance which can make for smooth descents but are harder to lock off. Rescue 8's offer some extra nubs to create greater resistance. ATCs and other tube devices offer higher resistance and are thus safer and easier for many people to stop a fall, but the ride tends to be less smooth. Since ropes have moved in the direction of skinny and slick it's rare to find anyone climbing with an 8. Having one on your harness generally means you are ex-military or a sport rappeller.
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milesenoell
Apr 12, 2013, 4:17 AM
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Perhaps it was my poor technique since I have only used 8s a handful of times, but I've found the resistance to be low unless I use the small hole sticht-plate style like Majid mentioned.
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markc
Apr 12, 2013, 7:01 PM
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If you're just breaking into multipitch climbing, you should have a good idea of how you're getting down from a route before you ever leave the ground. If you're climbing in an established area, the guidebook should detail descent information. Sometimes there are shared stations for multiple climbs.
As others have said, in established areas you may be dealing with a walk-off, bolts, slung natural features, or a mix. While you should be prepared to leave webbing to shore up a station or to leave gear if necessary, every single person who climbs in an area isn't going to be leaving parts of their rack.
Seeking an experienced partner or a guide to help you break into multipitch climbing (without breaking yourself) isn't a bad idea.
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