|
ECP801
Apr 25, 2013, 11:11 PM
Post #1 of 22
(26953 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 25, 2013
Posts: 3
|
I work at a production company in SLC and just got into climbing in the last 2 years. Naturally i want to mix my two loves but i can find any real good info on what pros are using to do photos and videos.
Also I am not rich. Meaning i can afford to have a red epic, or sony F5, or canon 1D mark C of my own to use outside. Looking to keep my price range around $1000
Any info out there on DSLR systems (rebels, lumix, etc)
any help would be much appreciated
|
|
|
|
|
atarinaper
Apr 26, 2013, 3:44 AM
Post #2 of 22
(26917 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 11, 2004
Posts: 86
|
Canon and Nikon systems are probably your best bet. You could get away with a Rebel t3i, 50mm and 24mm... for around that price. Same goes nikon. Your best bet is to stick with one of those systems.
|
|
|
|
|
ECP801
Apr 26, 2013, 4:37 PM
Post #3 of 22
(26875 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 25, 2013
Posts: 3
|
any thoughts on a mirrorless dslr tech? outdoor photophtographer has a pretty cool article on them.
http://www.outdoorphotographer.com/gear/cameras/lighten-up-go-mirrorless.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/968554-REG/panasonic_dmc_g6kk_lumix_dmc_g6_mirrorless_micro.html
|
|
|
|
|
JasonsDrivingForce
Apr 30, 2013, 1:13 PM
Post #4 of 22
(26808 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 3, 2009
Posts: 687
|
Pretty much everyone is going to say use a Canon or perhaps a Nikon. That is simply because that is what they know and use.
For Rock Climbing videos LT11 is pretty good and they have used Canon products at every event I have been to. However, Andrew Kornylak and Chuck Fryberger have definitely produced the best climbing footage I have ever seen.
Andrew posts on this forum sometimes and he has stated before that he uses Nikon cameras. Not sure what he is using now. You can check his website to see if it lists his equipment.
http://www.akornphoto.com/
Chuck Fryberger has used a Red One for his excellent Blu-ray climbing videos. I am not sure if he is still using that camera though.
https://vimeo.com/9803426
As far as mirrorless goes I think those guys have used some mirrorless cameras before. Probably a hacked Panasonic GH2. However, I don’t think they use any mirrorless cameras as their main cameras.
I use a Panasonic GH3 for casual climbing “Home” videos. Simply put the GH3’s continuous autofocus during video is what sets it apart. For theatrical movies you would never want to use autofocus because you can control the scene and auto focusing is not a strong suite of the traditional video cameras.
However, for live action one take shots a good auto focus is essential.
I use a 35-100mm F2.8 Panasonic lens on my GH3 and shoot mostly indoor low light videos. Here are a couple of examples from this year’s indoor ABS youth Nationals. This was shot entirely handheld with Auto Focus in 1080p @ 60 FPS.
The focus pulls are done simply by touching the LCD screen and changing the focus point. It couldn’t be simpler than that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPerTW2Vrew
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whkSskxQ2CI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TgFg4_5a8c
Here is a video shot at the same time from LT11 and shot with Canon cameras. I think they used a few Canon 7Ds.
https://vimeo.com/38334384
There is a new mirrorless Micro Four Thirds solution coming out from Black Magic that is extremely small and shoots 1080p @ 24 FPS RAW footage with 13 stops of dynamic range for $1000. It pretty much is said to be the Holy Grail of portable cinema video cameras. It even is rumored to have auto focus for m4/3s lenses. I will believe that when I see it. If this camera turns out to meet expectations I can see a lot of people switching to it.
http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/...cpocketcinemacamera/
(This post was edited by JasonsDrivingForce on Apr 30, 2013, 1:13 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
marc801
May 1, 2013, 2:50 PM
Post #5 of 22
(26737 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 1, 2005
Posts: 2806
|
JasonsDrivingForce wrote: Chuck Fryberger has used a Red One for his excellent Blu-ray climbing videos. I am not sure if he is still using that camera though. https://vimeo.com/9803426
|
|
|
|
|
JasonsDrivingForce
May 1, 2013, 3:20 PM
Post #6 of 22
(26724 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 3, 2009
Posts: 687
|
marc801 wrote: JasonsDrivingForce wrote: Chuck Fryberger has used a Red One for his excellent Blu-ray climbing videos. I am not sure if he is still using that camera though. https://vimeo.com/9803426The OP asks for recommendations $1000 and under and someone mentions a $48K camera. Good old rc.com.
You obviously do not read very well. The OP asked what the pros use and he accidently wrote “i CAN afford to have a red epic, or sony F5, or canon 1D mark C”. I know that he meant that he CAN’T afford those cameras but he did ask what the PROs use and he asked whether Mirrorless can compete.
As far as the Pro Climbing videographers that I have seen they use cameras that cost more than $1000. However, I am willing to bet that they will give the Black Magic camera a good look. Maybe Andrew can shed some light on this better than I can if he still posts here.
I never recommended the RED camera. I simply stated that one of the best pros has used and still uses a Red camera. That answers the OP’s original question.
However, I still think that the OP should look into the $1000 Black Magic camera if video is all that he wants to shoot.
If he wants to shoot videos and stills then the Panasonic, Sony, and Olympus mirrorless solutions are better for both stills and video than ANY APS-C camera that Canon has ever produced. Yet many pro photographers still use Canon APS-C cameras simply because that is what they know and they have a lot of Canon glass that they don’t want to re-buy in another format.
(This post was edited by JasonsDrivingForce on May 2, 2013, 1:45 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
ECP801
May 1, 2013, 11:53 PM
Post #7 of 22
(26696 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 25, 2013
Posts: 3
|
Thanks jason! i have been doing a lot with the info you provided. You have been a huge help so thank you so much. and yes i CANT afford a red. honestly what average guy can afford a red? haha Mirrorless systems seem to be the way to go for me. Is there any other cameras you have used for production work in my price range? I am not totally sold on the blackmagic yet. should have played with it at NAB. I am actually in pre production for a short doc on climbing right now.
|
|
|
|
|
JasonsDrivingForce
May 2, 2013, 1:42 AM
Post #8 of 22
(26683 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 3, 2009
Posts: 687
|
I don't do a lot of editing so I am not the best person to ask about that. However, there are TONS of people at the link below that produce professional videos with the GH2 and GH3.
http://www.personal-view.com/.
Red cameras are great. However, 4K video really is hard to work with. 1080p @ 120 FPS is really cool though. You can conform 120 FPS to 24, 30, 48, 60, 96, and 120 timelines without any loss.
I wouldn't buy the black magic camera right away. However, it should be released next month. After a few reviews you should know if it really is the holy grail or not. I have seen footage from it already and it looks great so far. Extremely gradable.
|
|
|
|
|
brooklynclimber
May 14, 2013, 5:49 PM
Post #9 of 22
(26443 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 6, 2012
Posts: 94
|
Most pros I know use Canons, some Nikons. However, I very often shoot with a small mirrorless 4/3 camera. I got it a few years ago and the image quality along with video quality is excellent. Panasonic GF-1. I don't think there's an update to it. The advantage of the mirrorless systems is that they are significantly lighter because they don't have a prism in the top, and the lenses can be smaller. Compared with the Canon, though, there is a smaller selection of lenses.
If I were in your shoes I'd take a good look at the recent Canon Rebels, which are excellent, and the Nikons. The Olympus PEN might be a good choice also. Not sure what the current Panasonic would be.
|
|
|
|
|
JasonsDrivingForce
May 14, 2013, 6:05 PM
Post #10 of 22
(26437 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 3, 2009
Posts: 687
|
brooklynclimber wrote: Most pros I know use Canons, some Nikons. However, I very often shoot with a small mirrorless 4/3 camera. I got it a few years ago and the image quality along with video quality is excellent. Panasonic GF-1. I don't think there's an update to it. The advantage of the mirrorless systems is that they are significantly lighter because they don't have a prism in the top, and the lenses can be smaller. Compared with the Canon, though, there is a smaller selection of lenses. If I were in your shoes I'd take a good look at the recent Canon Rebels, which are excellent, and the Nikons. The Olympus PEN might be a good choice also. Not sure what the current Panasonic would be.
The GF1 has been updated 4 times now(GF2,GF3, GF5, and GF6). M4/3s has come a long way since the days of the GF1. I have had one since the beginning. I have their latest flagship camera(GH3), and I have had a few in-between.
The GF1 isn’t even remotely similar to the newer models like the GH3 and G6. The newest cameras are far superior to the GF1 in sensitivity and far superior to the Canon Rebels. They are not quite up to Nikon’s standards though. However, they are really close.
If you don’t have any Canon glass already I couldn’t imagine why you would feel the need to buy a rebel over the other options. They are inferior to other cameras in every aspect.
|
|
|
|
|
knudenoggin
Jun 5, 2013, 3:20 PM
Post #11 of 22
(26180 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 6, 2004
Posts: 596
|
JasonsDrivingForce wrote: brooklynclimber wrote: ... Panasonic GF-1. I don't think there's an update to it. The advantage of the mirrorless systems is that they are significantly lighter because they don't have a prism in the top, and the lenses can be smaller. Compared with the Canon, though, there is a smaller selection of lenses. If I were in your shoes I'd take a good look at the recent Canon Rebels, which are excellent, and the Nikons. The Olympus PEN might be a good choice also. Not sure what the current Panasonic would be. The GF1 has been updated 4 times now(GF2,GF3, GF5, and GF6). M4/3s has come a long way since the days of the GF1. I have had one since the beginning. I have their latest flagship camera(GH3), and I have had a few in-between. The GF1 isn’t even remotely similar to the newer models like the GH3 and G6. The newest cameras are far superior to the GF1 in sensitivity and far superior to the Canon Rebels. They are not quite up to Nikon’s standards though. However, they are really close. ...
Thanks for the information.
To many GF1 fans, the only *real(tm)* update is the GX1
--those other "GF"s being oriented away from "enthusiast"
(and pro) users towards popular consumption.
As for lenses, the M4/3rds makers Olympus & Panasonic
have come out with a now pretty impressive set of primes
and zooms --notably Pany's recent 12-35 & 35-100 f/2.8
stabilized & weather-resistant standard range (35mm equiv.
24-70-200), and many of the primes from the older Pany
20/f1.7 which came out with the GF1 to a few Oly lenses
such as their 75/1.8 which are garnering raves. BUT, these
are not cheap lenses! Still, if you look at Nikon's APS-C
("DX", crop-sensor body) lenses, you don't see such an
impressive set; and if you go to their "FX"/full-frame
lenses & Canon "L" lenses, you are paying as much or
more and gaining much weight.
There was/is a thread about the viability --the future--
of M4/3rds systems on www.GetDPI.com; it has some good
responses, and notably enthusiastic is p.2/#63, which speaks
to both video (GH3) & stills. (To my mind, Pany's making
of the toughened & even slightly enlarged GH3 and the
"pro" zooms, and Oly's quite popular OM-D E-M5 speak
of growing interest, esp. of the reduced size & weight.)
www.getdpi.com/forum/4-3rds-cameras/44811-has-time-technology-caught-up-m43rds-2.html
Cheers,
*kN*
|
|
|
|
|
JasonsDrivingForce
Jun 5, 2013, 3:34 PM
Post #12 of 22
(26178 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 3, 2009
Posts: 687
|
The GX7 is said to be the "The Camera everyone is waiting for".
http://www.43rumors.com/...is-and-titlable-evf/
Personally I like my GH3. I don't have to have a tiny pocket able camera. As long as the lenses are small then I am fine. I have the 14mm F2.5, 25mm F1.4, 35-100mm F2.8, and 800mm F4.0 telescope that I use with the GH3, GH2, and Full spectrum GF1 I have.
I really haven't found a great need to get anymore lenses than that. I sold off the 20mm F1.7, 45mm F1.8, 14-140mm, and 45-200mm. The 35-100mm and 25mm F1.4 have replaced all of those lenses for me.
|
|
|
|
|
oldsalt
Jun 5, 2013, 5:05 PM
Post #13 of 22
(26164 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 19, 2004
Posts: 919
|
I have been completely satisfied with my Panasonic G-1. I got the "standard" 14-45mm zoom, and added the 45-200mm zoom. I love this camera. The only technical thing I am still working on is dealing with glare. I shoot a lot of water, both flowing and still. Rapids wash out to pure white, and my computer edits can't fix what ain't there. Suggestions?
|
|
|
|
|
JasonsDrivingForce
Jun 5, 2013, 5:32 PM
Post #14 of 22
(26155 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 3, 2009
Posts: 687
|
oldsalt wrote: I have been completely satisfied with my Panasonic G-1. I got the "standard" 14-45mm zoom, and added the 45-200mm zoom. I love this camera. The only technical thing I am still working on is dealing with glare. I shoot a lot of water, both flowing and still. Rapids wash out to pure white, and my computer edits can't fix what ain't there. Suggestions?
The original Panasonic sensors had rather poor dynamic range. Like you said you can't fix what has already been lost.
I would sell your G1 and get one of the newer m4/3s cameras like the Olympus EPL-5 or the upcoming Panasonic GX7. Those cameras use a the new Sony sensor or a variant of it that has much better dynamic range. You will also get top quality video and in body image stabilization that works great.
Your 14-45mm lens is still highly sought after. You can sell that for at least $250 still. If you ever get strapped for cash that lens really is very easy to sell.
|
|
|
|
|
oldsalt
Jun 5, 2013, 8:45 PM
Post #15 of 22
(26134 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 19, 2004
Posts: 919
|
Thanks. I will check into what you suggest.
|
|
|
|
|
knudenoggin
Jun 6, 2013, 8:03 PM
Post #16 of 22
(26073 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 6, 2004
Posts: 596
|
You obviously are reading a little TOO well!
Given that currently we're awaiting a rumored GX2 (two),
how long before that "GX7" will emerge, d'ya think?
LX7 LX5 G1X GX1 1DX X-Pro1 1 X pro GeeWhiz ...
Aren't camera IDs great?
*kN*
|
|
|
|
|
JasonsDrivingForce
Jun 6, 2013, 8:18 PM
Post #17 of 22
(26068 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 3, 2009
Posts: 687
|
knudenoggin wrote: You obviously are reading a little TOO well! Given that currently we're awaiting a rumored GX2 (two), how long before that "GX7" will emerge, d'ya think? LX7 LX5 G1X GX1 1DX X-Pro1 1 X pro GeeWhiz ... Aren't camera IDs great? *kN*
I think that the latest information is that Panasonic will skip GX2-GX6 and go straight to GX7 to designate that it is newer than the "just released" GF6 and G6. They want to make sure that everyone knows this is their latest and greatest. Hopefully, it truly is the greatest and has the new GH3 sensor in it. The GH2 was good but not nearly as good as the GH3 sensor.
http://www.43rumors.com/...mor-the-name-is-gx7/
(This post was edited by JasonsDrivingForce on Jun 6, 2013, 8:22 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
knudenoggin
Jun 7, 2013, 10:27 PM
Post #18 of 22
(26023 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 6, 2004
Posts: 596
|
JasonsDrivingForce wrote: knudenoggin wrote: LX7 LX5 G1X GX1 1DX X-Pro1 1 X pro GeeWhiz ... Aren't camera IDs great? *kN* I think that the latest information is that Panasonic will skip GX2-GX6 and go straight to GX7 to designate that it is newer than the "just released" GF6 and G6. They want to make sure that everyone knows this is their latest and greatest. Hopefully, it truly is the greatest and has the new GH3 sensor in it. The GH2 was good but not nearly as good as the GH3 sensor.
to go that way (and stands in contrast to the very
"1" of "GX1"); not that marketers are ever stupid.
"GX3" could excuse the omission of "2" in order
to bind the compact body to the mother-ship GH3,
AND keep it distinct from the different-sort-of-beast
"GF" models --which I think would be GOOD to do.
One senses that the GX might not see more updates
then GH bodies? --and the others can chase some
different schedule?
TO continually intermix --by suffis/seq. #s-- GF
& GX would be counterproductive, a PITA.
*kn*
|
|
|
|
|
JasonsDrivingForce
Jun 10, 2013, 1:39 PM
Post #19 of 22
(25928 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 3, 2009
Posts: 687
|
knudenoggin wrote: LX7 LX5 G1X GX1 1DX X-Pro1 1 X pro GeeWhiz ... Aren't camera IDs great? *kN*
At one point both Canon and Panasonic had a G10 camera released within 1 year of each other. Canon has also had a G1X and Panasonic has a GX1.
|
|
|
|
|
oldsalt
Jan 12, 2014, 4:58 AM
Post #20 of 22
(23569 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 19, 2004
Posts: 919
|
I recently upgraded from the Pan. G1 to the G5. I had to double-check before posting this, because I was getting confused reading this thread. Mine is the DMC-G5, which did not completely fix the problem with too much glare burn-out.
The new controls that have been added have resulted in a 99 page user manual. I still fight glare, but I have added a polarizing filter on top of the UV. The little black toggle on top near the shutter-release button permits me to darken the image to fight white-outs, after rotating the UV to minimize what it can't remove.
I am not fully satisfied, but I'm not sure if I am doing all that I can ... I have about 65 pages of documentation to go, and I keep going out to shoot instead of spending a month reading.
|
|
|
|
|
JasonsDrivingForce
Jan 17, 2014, 3:22 PM
Post #21 of 22
(23419 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 3, 2009
Posts: 687
|
Glare in your image is a function of the lens. Don't swap cameras. Fix the issue with the lens. Do you have some sample photos?
|
|
|
|
|
oldsalt
Jan 18, 2014, 6:19 PM
Post #22 of 22
(23357 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 19, 2004
Posts: 919
|
I emailed you two images, one with too-bright patches, one with a different brightness setting, and a two-image HDR of the combination. For those reading this thread and can't see the images, the result with or without HDR processing is OK despite small patches of warning black in the viewer.
In that context, I like the brightness warning in the Lumix.
|
|
|
|
|
|
