Hey I was wondering if it is safe to use an EDK (backed up with a second EDK) in a cordelette anchor toprope? I know that I can use a double fishermans but it tends to be a real pain to untie if weighted. Thanks.

Is this to tie the cordelette in a loop? Or something else?

Yup, tying to ends of my cordelette together.

... and there are many ways to use a cordelette for a top rope anchor. Sometimes, one can even rig the anchor with it without directly joining the two ends together. What's your plan?

Bill L

I am a little confusing what you mean. I am building an anchor out of three pieces of trad. Does this answer your question? Thanks.

Configured roughly like this?
[image]http://www.chockstone.org/TechTips/Cordelette6l.JPG[/image]

Well, if you really need to not have a knot there when you're done for the day and if your cord is long enough ...

* pretend there is a fourth piece of gear;
* when you thread the cord through the pieces, leave the two ends in the vicinity of the imaginary fourth piece;
* tie the power point's knot as shown in the picture.

The two ends are then isolated from any load by the power point's knot. You can tie them together however you like and it does not matter or leave them free. They will never see a load.

Bill L

P.S. Personally, I just tie the double fishermans and rarely untie it.

Are you breathlessly staying away from the double EDK because your concerned with its safety?

Hey I was wondering if it is safe to use an EDK (backed up with a second EDK) in a cordelette anchor toprope? I know that I can use a double fishermans but it tends to be a real pain to untie if weighted. Thanks.

I don't know whether it's safe or not, but I know it's foolish. The double fisherman's knot tightens under tension, which is exactly the behavior you want in a cordelette knot. And, no, it is not significantly more difficult to untie after it has been weighted.

Stick with time-tested methods. Resist the temptation to gumby innovate.

I do agree that the double fisherman's is safer but I strongly disagree that it is as easy to untie. This is not only my personal experience but reiterated in almost every guidebook and knot tying website. http://www.animatedknots.com even gos so far to say that the two ends can effectively become "welded". It can be extremely foolish for me to risk my cordelette locking up on a multi-pitch especially if I later need to tie a bowline on a later pitch if an overhand backed up with an overhand will suffice. Of course that is the big question that I am trying to figure out.

Instead of climbing wiith a cordalette that is tied in a loop, you could try building your anchors with a cordalette that is not looped but instead has figure 8s tied at each end.

The above method will not equalize the pieces well as most of the load will be transferred to the piece with the double strand. The single strands will stretch more because there is less material on those legs.

The above method will not equalize the pieces well as most of the load will be transferred to the piece with the double strand. The single strands will stretch more because there is less material on those legs..

equalization is basically a myth with cords anchors anyways, especially if every leg is not exactly the same length

the advantage of the doubled strand is that you can choose which piece likely sees the most load

for the OP ... it all depends on how you use the cord ... if you arent tying off the masterpoint with a big knot, ie, you cant with a big tree anchor/bolder ... the overhand can capsize at lower loads than the fishermans ...

if however youre doing it the same way as shown in this video then yr fine ... as its the big masterpoint knot that keeps then strand toghether

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF4A85CPr8c

with thinner techcord and other such ... use a triple fishermans

Instead of climbing wiht a cordelette that is tied in a loop, you could try building your anchors with a cordelette that is not looped but instead has figure 8s tied at each end..

Ah, yes, the ol' deatholette resurfaces. It has half the strength of a cordelette tied in a loop.

Ah, yes, the ol' deatholette resurfaces. It has half the strength of a cordelette tied in a loop.

for power cord, if its spectra/dyneema id use a tripple fishermans ...realistically unless you need to keep untie and retying it to sling trees/boulders, you arent going to untie it that much


or tie fig8s/tripple barrels at each end and use the cord like this ... put the doubled strand on the strongest piece

[image]http://www.supertopo.com/photos/4/72/168688_20031_XL.jpg[/image]


dont overthink it ...

If you are setting up toprope anchors, then you really ought to be using larger-diameter rope or wider webbing than is typically used for a cordelette, and you wouldn't typically keep such materials knotted.

If you are speaking of trad anchors, then you can almost always use the climbing rope itself to tie into large rocks and trees.

Conclusion: the only time you really have to untie a cordelette is either for rescue and/or emergency retreat purposes, in which case cutting off the knot is probably the best thing to do.

In view of these considerations, I'd use a double fisherman's. It is compact, strong, and it won't work loose when you aren't looking.