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lena_chita
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May 20, 2013, 3:11 PM
Post #26 of 40
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bearbreeder wrote: Syd wrote: billl7 wrote: , if it is done just right, the person isn't moving so fast/much ... Bill L I think that is the point ... if the jump is exactly right such that she jumps out just far enough to have minimum swing in, and the fall ends at the exact moment that the fall ends, impact is small. Anything else and it starts to hurt. I did some reading and the captstan equation predicts that the tension in the climbing rope will be over 2.3 times that coming from the top draw to the belayer. That is, friction on the top draw has a big effect on reducing the dynamic effects of the dynamic rope. The light weight climber would also reduce dynamic stretch. This is probably why the video looks like a fall on a static. no ... its not hard ... keep a slight bit of slack in the rope ... as the person falls let yourself get pulled in/up a bit, no need to jump ... easy to do how much do you fall on lead, especially slab? 
I think Syd is talking about the climber jumping, not the belayer jumping in order to give a softer catch.
And no, the climber shouldn't be jumping out, because that creates a swing in, and DEFINITELY should avoid jumping while facing sideways/out.
The timing of the belayer's jump is easy to feel if you are lighter than the climber, but takes some practice to get just right if you are much heavier, as was the case of this (obviously not-very-experienced) belayer. But yes, I agree, not rocket science, easy to learn.
bandycoot pretty much summed it up.
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TradEddie
May 20, 2013, 3:49 PM
Post #27 of 40
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The main mistake was yours, the tight belay was only secondary. You should have been facing the wall, and at the very least tried to downclimb as far as possible.
TE
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healyje
May 20, 2013, 10:40 PM
Post #28 of 40
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Sometimes shit just happens, that too is part of what we call climbing.
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Syd
May 22, 2013, 1:51 AM
Post #29 of 40
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lena_chita wrote: I think Syd is talking about the climber jumping,.
Yes. Of course.
Here's another slab fall vid. Yummy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVnAVcbMoSM
(This post was edited by Syd on May 22, 2013, 1:53 AM)
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ACJ
May 24, 2013, 11:50 PM
Post #30 of 40
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Facing the wall would have helped.
I still would have tried to down climb. It's extremely rare that I jump off.
Softer catch needed but I'm not sure that would have saved you.
Also, no offense to your friends and at the same time it seems clear that their experience and judgement were off if they were screaming at you to "do it" and celebrating the fall.
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sonso45
May 25, 2013, 5:42 PM
Post #31 of 40
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I've fallen on quite a bit of slab. Last time was on Stampede, an 11 at Cochise Stronghold, AZ. I was out of sight of my belayer and he thought I was pulling slack.
I just continued shuffling my feet downhill as I focused on them to remain upright. Basically running backwards downhill until he stopped me @ 20-30' later. Scary.
Another thing is falling on slab and flipping upside down, head first. Bad outcome without a helmet and it can happen (happened to me too).
Like many have said, downclimb. It is an important skill for a leader to master.
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ski.ninja
May 29, 2013, 9:35 AM
Post #32 of 40
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Ankle injuries suck, and after I sprained both of mine (on slabs) last spring I spent about 2 weeks trying to find a way to blame my belayer. It's really not worth the effort. A softer catch may have reduced the severity of your injury, but there's no 'safe' way to jump around like that on rock.
But lucky you, now you get to spend a few hundred hours on your bike with a heart rate monitor, training your aerobic system and rehabing your ankle! I came back from my ankle injuries climbing an extra letter grade harder (after a few weeks) because of all the base fitness work I put in. This is just nature's way of telling you to train more.
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budman
May 29, 2013, 4:42 PM
Post #33 of 40
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Maybe the old school way of climbing is on it's way out!!!!!!!!!!!! Head injuries are usually the worst when you tumble down a slab out of control. So protect you head and try and control the fall. Your fall was intentional. Old wives tale about falling on slabs was to run down the slab facing your partner. Sounds crazy but it works.
A number of years ago, and I won't say how many, practiced this in Tuolumne on some 10+ slabs as I don't climb that level without falling. As you fall you head right or left, depending on which is the best or path of least resistance. As you run, and I do mean run, you run in an arc. The energy is absorbed by changing the acceleration from a gravitational force to a change in direction to some extent. Like a big swing.
There will be a point at which you will not be able to keep up with the acceleration of gravity and you will go head over heels. Head injuries are bad.
Number one rule when climbing slabs, Don't Fall.
Oh yeh! If you intend to try this I recommend starting small.
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Syd
May 30, 2013, 11:23 AM
Post #34 of 40
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budman wrote: Old wives tale about falling on slabs was to run down the slab facing your partner. Sounds crazy but it works.
I'd love to see a video of it. Do you know of any ?
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budman
Jun 7, 2013, 5:20 PM
Post #35 of 40
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Wish I had known, I was just there and could have made one if I could get up the nerve again to fall on slabs. Scared the crap out of myself on Goodrich Pinnacle in the Valley and only did the first 4 pitches. Sorry I know of no videos.
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Syd
Jun 7, 2013, 10:51 PM
Post #36 of 40
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I read an article recently (and I'll be damned if I can find it again) that recommended against leading on routes under 5.10 and claimed that many 5.13 climbers are terrified of falling on a 5.8 slab.
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sonso45
Jun 8, 2013, 4:16 AM
Post #38 of 40
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I have to disagree that falling on a slab is best done by facing your partner and running at him. When I fall, I don't have time to turn around. Just keep upright and run/shuffle feet to stay upright. I've climbed and fallen on lots of slab.
That is the only technique I've used and seen. Love to see a video of someone running facing downhill too.
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lena_chita
Moderator
Jun 8, 2013, 12:45 PM
Post #39 of 40
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Syd wrote: I read an article recently (and I'll be damned if I can find it again) that recommended against leading on routes under 5.10 and claimed that many 5.13 climbers are terrified of falling on a 5.8 slab.
Of course 5.13 climbers are terrified of falling on 5.8 slab! So they just don't fall on it.
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JasonsDrivingForce
Jul 11, 2013, 3:47 PM
Post #40 of 40
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Aurel42 wrote: Here's the incident: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3A0_7Lq_ts My question is: would it have been different if I was facing the wall ?
That is a very good example of what NOT to do when falling and when belaying in that situation.
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