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Partner cracklover


Aug 6, 2013, 11:20 AM
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Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done?
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So here's the scenario. It's 9 AM. You're off in the back of beyond, on a little dirt road. You pull over to park to climb for the day. It's a good sized pullout that is designated both as a campsite and a parking area. It's the only convenient area to park in if you're climbing at the crag you're going to for the day.

As you pull in, you see there's one party set up camping for the day. No big deal, you've parked off to the side while folks were camping here before. But you've always known them - other climbers. As you pull in, you quickly asses the situation. It's a couple, and you don't know them. In fact they're pretty definitely not climbers. They've got two motocross-type motorcycles, a big-ass tent, a big-ass truck, a trailer with stuff spewing out of it, a fire going, country music blaring, and a few beers scattered around. Classic rednecks. Sure, that's okay. It's all good, right?

As you pull in, the guy gets up, belches loudly, and saunters over to your car, as you're pulling gear out of the back. He says he's got a couple more people coming to camp, with more motorcycles, and he wants you to beat it.

Now there's enough room for two more trucks, trailers, and tents, but only if this guy consolidates a little. And your car off to the side is not going to make a big difference.

What I did was to pull forward four feet or so into the weeds, and let him know that that was just going to have to be good enough. He didn't like it, and said so, but I just got my stuff and hit the trailhead.

All day I wondered if him and his buddies would take his annoyance out on my car.

What would you have done?

GO


(This post was edited by cracklover on Aug 6, 2013, 11:38 AM)


edge


Aug 6, 2013, 11:46 AM
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Re: [cracklover] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
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Years ago, driving home from a successful early ascent of the Black Dike, some yahoo perceived that we cut him off and started harassing us road-rage style. I pulled over to let him pass, and the guy pulls over too 50 yards past us, gets out, and starts storming towards us. Big dude, too.

My partner and I opened our doors, went to the back of the pickup, and turned to meet him half way with ice axes in hand. He didn't act so big after that, in fact he spun around faster than a cotton ball in a blender.

Ah the stupidity of youth.


dynosore


Aug 6, 2013, 1:10 PM
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Re: [cracklover] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
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cracklover wrote:
So here's the scenario. It's 9 AM. You're off in the back of beyond, on a little dirt road. You pull over to park to climb for the day. It's a good sized pullout that is designated both as a campsite and a parking area. It's the only convenient area to park in if you're climbing at the crag you're going to for the day.

As you pull in, you see there's one party set up camping for the day. No big deal, you've parked off to the side while folks were camping here before. But you've always known them - other climbers. As you pull in, you quickly asses the situation. It's a couple, and you don't know them. In fact they're pretty definitely not climbers. They've got two motocross-type motorcycles, a big-ass tent, a big-ass truck, a trailer with stuff spewing out of it, a fire going, country music blaring, and a few beers scattered around. Classic rednecks. Sure, that's okay. It's all good, right?

As you pull in, the guy gets up, belches loudly, and saunters over to your car, as you're pulling gear out of the back. He says he's got a couple more people coming to camp, with more motorcycles, and he wants you to beat it.

Now there's enough room for two more trucks, trailers, and tents, but only if this guy consolidates a little. And your car off to the side is not going to make a big difference.

What I did was to pull forward four feet or so into the weeds, and let him know that that was just going to have to be good enough. He didn't like it, and said so, but I just got my stuff and hit the trailhead.

All day I wondered if him and his buddies would take his annoyance out on my car.

What would you have done?

GO

You handled it well. I would have written down his license plate # in case anything happened while I was away from the car.

Some people just aren't worth arguing with. I had two guys threaten me while I was ice fishing one time. They came at me with ice spuds. Didn't like that my styrofoam minnow bucket was pink. They were drunk and were looking for trouble. I kid you not. I let them know I was armed and that was that. Packed up and left.


lena_chita
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Aug 6, 2013, 1:52 PM
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Re: [cracklover] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
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cracklover wrote:
So here's the scenario. It's 9 AM. You're off in the back of beyond, on a little dirt road. You pull over to park to climb for the day. It's a good sized pullout that is designated both as a campsite and a parking area. It's the only convenient area to park in if you're climbing at the crag you're going to for the day.

As you pull in, you see there's one party set up camping for the day. No big deal, you've parked off to the side while folks were camping here before. But you've always known them - other climbers. As you pull in, you quickly asses the situation. It's a couple, and you don't know them. In fact they're pretty definitely not climbers. They've got two motocross-type motorcycles, a big-ass tent, a big-ass truck, a trailer with stuff spewing out of it, a fire going, country music blaring, and a few beers scattered around. Classic rednecks. Sure, that's okay. It's all good, right?

As you pull in, the guy gets up, belches loudly, and saunters over to your car, as you're pulling gear out of the back. He says he's got a couple more people coming to camp, with more motorcycles, and he wants you to beat it.

Now there's enough room for two more trucks, trailers, and tents, but only if this guy consolidates a little. And your car off to the side is not going to make a big difference.

What I did was to pull forward four feet or so into the weeds, and let him know that that was just going to have to be good enough. He didn't like it, and said so, but I just got my stuff and hit the trailhead.

All day I wondered if him and his buddies would take his annoyance out on my car.

What would you have done?

GO


I think you handled it well, and I would have done the same. or tried to.

But this is where being a female is both an advantage and a disadvantage, so in some way it would have depended on who i was with. It can go either way. If it were me and another girl, the guy might have been more inclined to be nice to us and we would have been fine parking there, and not too worried about the car (but possibly worried about coming back in the afternoon to a campsite full of drunken guys). Or he might have decided that we were an easy target to intimidate, and it would have gotten worse, and I would have left.

If I were with a male partner, the guy would have directed all his questions/aggression at my partner, instead of me (the redneck-types always do), and the decision of what to do would have been up to this partner, really, bc he were the one under pressure.


And a funny story: On the way to TenSleep this summer, we were following my partner's new GPS, which took us a different way on the last ~1.5 hour of the drive, compared to how we went to TenSleep last year. We were driving on these little unpaved country roads, when a pickup truck started chasing us.
The truck caught up with us, and started running us off the road. We pulled off on the sid,e and hte guy jumped out of the truck, super-angry. Turns out that we were driving through his ranch and he was VERY unhappy about it (even though GPS was saying that it is just a county road).

Well picture this: I am with a guy who has fake-blond hair he had just bleached before the trip, and he is wearing bright-color T-shirt and manpris, and sunglasses, and looking I guess like a very metrosexual that DEFINITELY doesn't belong on the ranch. I really thought the rancher guy was going to beat him bloody! Or shoot him, or something...

But my partner is a naturally-friendly guy who acted non-threateningly, apologized profusely, explained that we were not local (as if that needed to be said!), apologized again, and again, and the rancher mellowed out and told us that we should turn around and go a different way b.c that was shorter.

And all the rancher said to me was "G-day m'am" with a tip of the hat at the end. Until then, his business was with the dude, and the dude only. I might as well have been a decoration.


Syd


Aug 6, 2013, 4:39 PM
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Re: [cracklover] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
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A thousand variants of that story must be repeated every day. Just a couple of days ago I was getting our toddler out of my car after parking and a fellow walked up to me and asked if I could move my car forward. I refused and told him to just park in the space in front of me.
If you car is in one piece when you return, you did the right thing.


Partner cracklover


Aug 6, 2013, 4:40 PM
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Re: [edge] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
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edge wrote:
Years ago, driving home from a successful early ascent of the Black Dike, some yahoo perceived that we cut him off and started harassing us road-rage style. I pulled over to let him pass, and the guy pulls over too 50 yards past us, gets out, and starts storming towards us. Big dude, too.

My partner and I opened our doors, went to the back of the pickup, and turned to meet him half way with ice axes in hand. He didn't act so big after that, in fact he spun around faster than a cotton ball in a blender.

Ah the stupidity of youth.

Ha! That's awesome. In my case I was just out sport wanking for the day, and I don't think a quickdraw is quite as intimidating. And fortunately, no violence was threatened. It was only after I'd started up the hike I started to think about what might come next.

GO


Partner cracklover


Aug 6, 2013, 4:44 PM
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Re: [lena_chita] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
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lena_chita wrote:
cracklover wrote:
So here's the scenario. It's 9 AM. You're off in the back of beyond, on a little dirt road. You pull over to park to climb for the day. It's a good sized pullout that is designated both as a campsite and a parking area. It's the only convenient area to park in if you're climbing at the crag you're going to for the day.

As you pull in, you see there's one party set up camping for the day. No big deal, you've parked off to the side while folks were camping here before. But you've always known them - other climbers. As you pull in, you quickly asses the situation. It's a couple, and you don't know them. In fact they're pretty definitely not climbers. They've got two motocross-type motorcycles, a big-ass tent, a big-ass truck, a trailer with stuff spewing out of it, a fire going, country music blaring, and a few beers scattered around. Classic rednecks. Sure, that's okay. It's all good, right?

As you pull in, the guy gets up, belches loudly, and saunters over to your car, as you're pulling gear out of the back. He says he's got a couple more people coming to camp, with more motorcycles, and he wants you to beat it.

Now there's enough room for two more trucks, trailers, and tents, but only if this guy consolidates a little. And your car off to the side is not going to make a big difference.

What I did was to pull forward four feet or so into the weeds, and let him know that that was just going to have to be good enough. He didn't like it, and said so, but I just got my stuff and hit the trailhead.

All day I wondered if him and his buddies would take his annoyance out on my car.

What would you have done?

GO


I think you handled it well, and I would have done the same. or tried to.

But this is where being a female is both an advantage and a disadvantage, so in some way it would have depended on who i was with. It can go either way. If it were me and another girl, the guy might have been more inclined to be nice to us and we would have been fine parking there, and not too worried about the car (but possibly worried about coming back in the afternoon to a campsite full of drunken guys). Or he might have decided that we were an easy target to intimidate, and it would have gotten worse, and I would have left.

If I were with a male partner, the guy would have directed all his questions/aggression at my partner, instead of me (the redneck-types always do), and the decision of what to do would have been up to this partner, really, bc he were the one under pressure.


And a funny story: On the way to TenSleep this summer, we were following my partner's new GPS, which took us a different way on the last ~1.5 hour of the drive, compared to how we went to TenSleep last year. We were driving on these little unpaved country roads, when a pickup truck started chasing us.
The truck caught up with us, and started running us off the road. We pulled off on the sid,e and hte guy jumped out of the truck, super-angry. Turns out that we were driving through his ranch and he was VERY unhappy about it (even though GPS was saying that it is just a county road).

Well picture this: I am with a guy who has fake-blond hair he had just bleached before the trip, and he is wearing bright-color T-shirt and manpris, and sunglasses, and looking I guess like a very metrosexual that DEFINITELY doesn't belong on the ranch. I really thought the rancher guy was going to beat him bloody! Or shoot him, or something...

But my partner is a naturally-friendly guy who acted non-threateningly, apologized profusely, explained that we were not local (as if that needed to be said!), apologized again, and again, and the rancher mellowed out and told us that we should turn around and go a different way b.c that was shorter.

And all the rancher said to me was "G-day m'am" with a tip of the hat at the end. Until then, his business was with the dude, and the dude only. I might as well have been a decoration.

Yep. Mr Redneck treated both my wife and his own as if they were invisible, and directed everything at me.

Funny story about your drive to Tensleep! My first time up there I made the mistake of trusting our GPS. This was five years ago or so, and it just dumped us in an old gravel mine. We lost a bunch of driving time, but no run-ins with pissed off ranchers!

GO


5.samadhi


Aug 6, 2013, 5:16 PM
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Re: [cracklover] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
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strapping on a pistol after exiting your truck would have worked well.

I guess I don't often have trouble with "rednecks" since I am somewhat of a redneck...if I want to appear that way.


(This post was edited by 5.samadhi on Aug 6, 2013, 5:16 PM)


curt


Aug 6, 2013, 6:27 PM
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Re: [edge] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
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edge wrote:
Years ago, driving home from a successful early ascent of the Black Dike, some yahoo perceived that we cut him off and started harassing us road-rage style. I pulled over to let him pass, and the guy pulls over too 50 yards past us, gets out, and starts storming towards us. Big dude, too.

My partner and I opened our doors, went to the back of the pickup, and turned to meet him half way with ice axes in hand. He didn't act so big after that, in fact he spun around faster than a cotton ball in a blender.

Ah the stupidity of youth.

Glad that turned out OK for you, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend your tactic to others. The correlation between redneck-ed-ness and being armed is pretty high and you don't want to be the guy who brings an ice axe to a gunfight. Cool

Curt


6pacfershur


Aug 6, 2013, 7:29 PM
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Re: [cracklover] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
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recognize the red-flag warnings.....I would have talked to the guy before I parked, get an idea of his mental state: considering the jerryspringerfuckyou attitude of 'mericans, poor communication skills and the number of guns out there, cooperation and consideration may be a thing of the past......


milesenoell


Aug 6, 2013, 11:32 PM
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Other than taking license plate numbers I would do about as you did. I try to hit that sweet spot between saying too little and starting a conversation that doesn't go anywhere good.


chadnsc


Aug 7, 2013, 5:59 AM
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I would have done the same thing you did cracklover.


Partner cracklover


Aug 7, 2013, 8:58 AM
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Re: [chadnsc] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
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Yeah, so to finish the story.... I was only a couple hundred yards away, so I went back to the car to get my tape. Pulled my car a little further into the weeds, wrote down his license plate just to be on the safe side (after hiking back up the hill - would be rude to do that in front of him), and had a very nice day of climbing with my wife.

Returned at the end of the day to find their whole rig gone, and my car untouched. I guess his buddies never showed up, or they got rained on and bailed, or they moved to a spot closer to the dirtbike trails.

Hope we had nothing to do with them bailing, but if so, so be it.

GO


budman


Aug 7, 2013, 3:00 PM
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Re: [cracklover] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
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Usually offer a beer out of my cooler or theirs. Share a few stories about the bikes I've ridden and owned and where. Relate the blue collar redneck work history that is who I am (they usually can relate). Express my desire to climb that day and ask if they would like to watch and maybe try climbing especially if they have children. Inform them that we will be back at the end of the day hopefully share beers. I usually try to make a few new friends so they can watch my car.

Surely doesn't hurt to take the plate number or have a tire iron or ice axe handy. Can't say I've ever needed any of those in a situation like this though.


billl7


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Bud, The world needs more people like you.


dr_feelgood


Aug 7, 2013, 6:16 PM
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budman wrote:
Usually offer a beer out of my cooler or theirs. Share a few stories about the bikes I've ridden and owned and where. Relate the blue collar redneck work history that is who I am (they usually can relate). Express my desire to climb that day and ask if they would like to watch and maybe try climbing especially if they have children. Inform them that we will be back at the end of the day hopefully share beers. I usually try to make a few new friends so they can watch my car.

Surely doesn't hurt to take the plate number or have a tire iron or ice axe handy. Can't say I've ever needed any of those in a situation like this though.

Yes. Beer diplomacy is the key to disarming rednecks. Never leave home without a sixer.


jt512


Aug 7, 2013, 9:17 PM
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Re: [budman] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
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budman wrote:
Usually offer a beer out of my cooler or theirs. Share a few stories about the bikes I've ridden and owned and where. Relate the blue collar redneck work history that is who I am (they usually can relate). Express my desire to climb that day and ask if they would like to watch and maybe try climbing especially if they have children. Inform them that we will be back at the end of the day hopefully share beers. I usually try to make a few new friends so they can watch my car.

Surely doesn't hurt to take the plate number or have a tire iron or ice axe handy. Can't say I've ever needed any of those in a situation like this though.

I think your approach straddles a fine line between diplomacy and Stockholm syndrome.


majid_sabet


Aug 7, 2013, 10:40 PM
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Unhappy rednecks


(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Aug 8, 2013, 5:07 PM)


budman


Aug 8, 2013, 10:50 AM
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Don't think so at least from my view point. Have decent education but have worked in the world of hard labor. Hope to think that I see the best in people and have in some small way the ability to bring the best out in people, especially when it comes to climbing.

Believe I also live in the real world as I was born in a major city and grew up seeing things that just are bad. Must admit I trust people to a point but will protect my family. Hopefully I keep an open mind and meet new people with out stereotyping.

When people are in a group you encounter the gang mentality but when you meet face to face, one on one, people are generally just decent people trying to have fun.


markc


Aug 8, 2013, 11:07 AM
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I'm not a fan of confrontation. I'd probably explain that I was just there for the day, and that I'd be gone long before his friends needed to set camp for the night. I'd offer to move a bit to accommodate his friends, but only do so if I'm sure I'm not getting stuck in the process.

I'd also explain that we're just climbing a short distance away, and that they can always find me if there's a problem. It shows I'm open to working things out, while letting them know I'm not going to be out of earshot if they decide to mess with my car.

I think budman's suggestion to see if they want to check out climbing is great, so long as you're not going to feel put out if they actually take you up on it.


distantThunder


Aug 8, 2013, 12:22 PM
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Re: [cracklover] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
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you handled it right.
and next time do this ... just say "Yeah no problem. But I've got this friend called dT who's gonna join me and he's a biker. Make sure you leave some room for his cruiser - because that dude is irrational and he's gonna be pissed if there's not enough space."

Hahahaha!
dT


(This post was edited by distantThunder on Aug 8, 2013, 7:43 PM)


Partner happiegrrrl


Aug 15, 2013, 1:30 PM
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Re: [distantThunder] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
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I don't do well with someone attempting to intimidate me, and so I am sure I would have blasted my mouth off and then spent the day worrying my van was going to have been trifled with. Or, if I was smart, I would have blasted my mouth off and then left, because I knew my van would get trifled with.

One of the reasons I HAD to leave NYC was that I refused to back down to assholes.

One time I was walking Teddy on the sidewalk and a guy is heading toward us. It is a thin sidewalk, and it is also trash day, but if BOTH of us moved to the sides, we would fit just fine. I move over, short rope Teddy and tell him to move aside and let the man walk through. The dude moves to the side we are on and stops dead in front of me.

I said "Excuse me. We moved over for you. There's plenty of room." He gets IN my face, and in this horrifyingly quiet voice, says "I could kill you, you cunt." And I knew that if I wasn't on a street with too much potential for witnesses, he very well might have.

Did that stop me from stepping back, yelling "Get the hell out of my face, you crazy asshole. Who do you think you are. You could kill me, eh. Well fuck you dude!" And I picked Teddy up and pushed right past him and flipped "What a funking small-dicked asshole"(or similar) as I did it.


Another time, this man was harrassing a lady who was sitting on the median bench on Broadway, up about 103rd Street, She looked so tired, and he looked like he was proselytizing...

She looked down and said "No."

The dude gets in my face, has cold, cold eyes of steel and whispers. "I was a Marine, and I could kill you a hundred different ways. Mind your own business, bitch."

Too late, I realized this was a pimp getting on the case of some poor tired hooker who must have run off or something(she wasn't dressed like a hooker). But do you think that stopped me? Noooo....

But, back to your redneck situation - IF I was with a guy, I would NOT mouth off, because I know that puts the gentleman in a very bad position. I may be stupid, but at least I know better than to get a guy friend beaten up for my stupidity.


milesenoell


Aug 15, 2013, 2:20 PM
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Re: [happiegrrrl] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
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At the risk of sermonizing: Escalation rarely yields good results. Escalating from a position of relative weakness especially so. Skillful redirection is the path I aspire to and would recommend.


rolfr


Aug 15, 2013, 8:57 PM
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Re: [cracklover] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
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There is more to the story in what you didn't say. Was there any inconvenient parking? Did you park there just to stake your claim as an entitled climber?

You are pretty quick to stereo type people, beers going, techo music, fire burning, must be boulderers!

Lighten up Dude! Crack a six pack when you approach those folks and they may see you as a friend instead of a dick!

I hope your attitude was worth the sugar they most surely dumped into your gas tank!


scotchie


Aug 15, 2013, 11:01 PM
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Re: [milesenoell] Unhappy rednecks - what would you have done? [In reply to]
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Ever since reading "Verbal Judo" years ago, l have been intrigued by the idea of de-escalating dangerous situations without using force. However, I haven't had much need to do so.

Resources for learning and practicing non-violent communication styles of conflict resolution are scarcely available. Yet it seems like this should be the direction that society needs to move.

Some specific things to try are to listen to their concerns. The more people get their feelings off their chest, the less hostile they become. I would actively encourage them to express themselves until they begin to calm down, then share my point of view and use that as a basis for negotiation. If others are acting angry, there is a natural tendency to copy their body language and tone of voice, but that only escalates the situation. To de-escalate its required to be calm. It's possible to call them out on it - "I don't understand why you're acting so upset. I'm just trying to park for my climb, just like I always do". Confronted with the ridiculousness of their behavior, most people will back down. I wasnt there in the specific situation, but in general, just because someone's acting upset or is a "redneck" doesn't necessarily mean they're going to be violent. If there seems to be a serious threat of real violence, either have a plan to defend yourself or get the hell out of dodge, or avoid the situation in the first place. I would probably be doing one of the latter in that case.

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