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Getting in the zone mentally/getting over fear?
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derpy


Aug 9, 2013, 11:00 AM
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Getting in the zone mentally/getting over fear?
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Wasn't sure what forum to put this in, hopefully this works. For what it's worth the context for this is that I'm mostly bouldering indoors, twice a week.

I'm finding that each time I go to the climbing wall it takes me a substantial bit of time (like, 30-45 minutes) to get in the right headspace to climb confidently. I'll do a couple of easy climbs just to get going, then try harder stuff. It's a small gym so there's rarely any completely new routes to try, it's all ones I have previously failed to finish.

Usually what's holding me back at this point is fear - not wanting to jump for holds I can't reach, feeling like I'm about to fall even though I'm really not, everything just looking soooo far away, etc. If I get stuck on something I pretty much climb straight back down because after a few seconds of stuckness my hands are sweating from nerves and I'm starting to feel even less able to stay on, let alone keep going. (Seriously that is the most frustrating response to feeling scared ever). It just feels like 'nope, no possible way I can reach that' even though I KNOW there's most probably a way I could.

I do keep trying though obviously and there's almost always a moment when it clicks into place. Woohoo, I'm moving confidently, I'm willing to try precarious feeling things, I manage stuff that felt impossible 10 minutes ago as though it's easy, and I don't feel at all wibbly. Brilliant. BUT I only get to enjoy that for a few climbs max before everything gets hard again because now I'm getting too physically tired. I do keep going for a bit but it's diminishing returns at that point.

I feel like the sweet spot between being in the right headspace and yet not being exhausted is just annoyingly small, and I'm not sure what to do about it. Is this just how it works? Hopefully my stamina will build up with time. I've been climbing for about a year and didn't start out particularly fit so I have some catching up to do there. But the mental aspect seems like it's something I should be able to 'just do' with willpower somehow. I see some people climbing at my level just walking in and trying stuff that clearly scares them from the get go. Is there anything you do to get into the right frame of mind and climb confidently?

I wonder if going more often than twice a week would help, so it's a bit less like starting from scratch each time. Unfortunately outside of holidays I just don't have the time Frown


meanandugly


Aug 9, 2013, 12:07 PM
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derpy wrote:
Wasn't sure what forum to put this in, hopefully this works. For what it's worth the context for this is that I'm mostly bouldering indoors, twice a week.

I'm finding that each time I go to the climbing wall it takes me a substantial bit of time (like, 30-45 minutes) to get in the right headspace to climb confidently. I'll do a couple of easy climbs just to get going, then try harder stuff. It's a small gym so there's rarely any completely new routes to try, it's all ones I have previously failed to finish.

Usually what's holding me back at this point is fear - not wanting to jump for holds I can't reach, feeling like I'm about to fall even though I'm really not, everything just looking soooo far away, etc. If I get stuck on something I pretty much climb straight back down because after a few seconds of stuckness my hands are sweating from nerves and I'm starting to feel even less able to stay on, let alone keep going. (Seriously that is the most frustrating response to feeling scared ever). It just feels like 'nope, no possible way I can reach that' even though I KNOW there's most probably a way I could.

I do keep trying though obviously and there's almost always a moment when it clicks into place. Woohoo, I'm moving confidently, I'm willing to try precarious feeling things, I manage stuff that felt impossible 10 minutes ago as though it's easy, and I don't feel at all wibbly. Brilliant. BUT I only get to enjoy that for a few climbs max before everything gets hard again because now I'm getting too physically tired. I do keep going for a bit but it's diminishing returns at that point.

I feel like the sweet spot between being in the right headspace and yet not being exhausted is just annoyingly small, and I'm not sure what to do about it. Is this just how it works? Hopefully my stamina will build up with time. I've been climbing for about a year and didn't start out particularly fit so I have some catching up to do there. But the mental aspect seems like it's something I should be able to 'just do' with willpower somehow. I see some people climbing at my level just walking in and trying stuff that clearly scares them from the get go. Is there anything you do to get into the right frame of mind and climb confidently?

I wonder if going more often than twice a week would help, so it's a bit less like starting from scratch each time. Unfortunately outside of holidays I just don't have the time Frown

I for
one hope to never get over it. Its why I climb.


derpy


Aug 9, 2013, 1:52 PM
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My title was maybe too sweeping! I'm not saying I never want to feel at all scared. Just that I can tell when I feel like I'm 'in the zone', but it takes forever to get to by which point I'm too tired to go for very long. (But with more words first time around, sorry :P).


lena_chita
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Aug 9, 2013, 3:00 PM
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Your "mental muscle" can be trained, just like the rest of your muscles. It is nice that you are so self-aware and you can identify these feelings. That's a first step towards training the right way-- identifying your weaknesses.

You know you need to warm up, both physically and mentally. So take your time on the easier climbs. Do more than couple. Do then a few times over.

Figure what gets you into the "zone" -- breathing, mental self-peptalk, encouragement from others, competitiveness with a fellow climber working the same route, etc.-- and then capitalize on it and keep working on making it more internal and self-sufficient, instead of relying on external factors.

And yes, as your stamina improves, you will get a larger window of trying to work hard problems, and will get better at clearing your mind, too.


meanandugly


Aug 9, 2013, 3:56 PM
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Re: [lena_chita] Getting in the zone mentally/getting over fear? [In reply to]
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lena_chita wrote:
Your "mental muscle" can be trained, just like the rest of your muscles. It is nice that you are so self-aware and you can identify these feelings. That's a first step towards training the right way-- identifying your weaknesses.

You know you need to warm up, both physically and mentally. So take your time on the easier climbs. Do more than couple. Do then a few times over.

Figure what gets you into the "zone" -- breathing, mental self-peptalk, encouragement from others, competitiveness with a fellow climber working the same route, etc.-- and then capitalize on it and keep working on making it more internal and self-sufficient, instead of relying on external factors.

And yes, as your stamina improves, you will get a larger window of trying to work hard problems, and will get better at clearing your mind, too.
+1


bearbreeder


Aug 9, 2013, 5:46 PM
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climb more .. and more ... and more

its the best solution

Wink


distantThunder


Aug 9, 2013, 6:49 PM
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derpy ... suggestion. purely a suggestion.
do more warm-ups on easy climbs and very easy rock - just doing upclimbing and downclimbing. the goal is not to climb high or low - just move SMOOTHLY over the rock and enjoy the experience! smooth movement replaces fear with confidence. the key is to do it at whatever level makes you feel confident. then progress as confidence builds.

cheers,
dT


(This post was edited by distantThunder on Aug 10, 2013, 5:28 AM)


shimanilami


Aug 9, 2013, 8:32 PM
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You should ask yourself, "What am I afraid of? What is holding me back?"

If you're bouldering in a gym, fear of falling simply shouldn't be a factor. But if that's your problem, then practicing falling may be a way out. That kind of fear is easy to address.

More likely, it is fear of failing that is holding you back. Climbing has a unique ability to tap into issues related to self esteem, confidence, and worth. These are harder to overcome than your standard "fear", but overcoming them is what you must do .... not just to be a better climber, but to grow as a human being in general.

You may want to look into the Rock Warrior's Way by Arno Ilgner. It is a great discussion of both types of fear and includes a number of tools and techniques for working through them. IMO it's standard reading for anyone who wants to take their climbing game to the next level.


DemolitionRed


Aug 11, 2013, 5:48 PM
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shimanilami has given you some great advice here, especially regarding the book which talks in depth about the fear of failure and the fear of falling.... The psychology behind it.

The fear of falling is what stops most climbers progressing. Human nature gives us a great sense of self preservation, so its not surprising that, that is probably one of the most common set backs when people start progressing on the rock/wall.

The only advice I can really give you is to get that book, read it and take on board what its telling you. I think that in itself will help you tremendously


derpy


Aug 12, 2013, 10:17 AM
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Thanks for the great advice all, I will be giving it all a go. Longer warmups with more attention to good movement during them certainly can't hurt. And that book is now on my Kindle.

Shimanilami: I think fear of falling *is* genuinely the biggest element right now, even though I'm only indoor bouldering! I took a bad fall once when I was just starting and evidently not paying enough attention (completely wasn't expecting it, landed straight legged before I'd even twigged what was happening and then couldn't climb for a month) and since then I have been SO much more cautious especially near the top of the wall. It's really dramatic how the moves I'm happy to do are reduced the higher I go up, which is probably why most of the routes I can't complete are stuck exactly 2 moves before the end! Up there somehow all handholds seem further away and all footholds more wobbly and inadequate... and I get worried that I'll get 'stuck' there, which has happened a couple of times :P

I did practice falling for a while and it helped a LOT, but it was months ago, the more I think about it the more I realise I need a repeat of that exercise. Certainly when I'm feeling in the right frame of mind all those things just don't happen, climbing feels 'normal' even when I'm up high.

That's not everything though. E.g. I remember this weekend I finished a route I've been trying and failing to even *start* for the last few weeks - it's not fear of heights when you're still stuck on the ground! Thinking about lena_chita's great comment I think it was definitely advice and encouragement from people, in this case, two friendly people at the gym working on a more difficult route on the same bit of wall as mine, so we ended up taking turns. I'm 99% sure I wouldn't have managed it without their suggestions. And having them watching made me far less likely to wimp out at the top as well, ha.


(This post was edited by derpy on Aug 12, 2013, 3:26 PM)


JAB


Aug 12, 2013, 10:58 AM
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It's good that you are cautious. Many people consider indoor bouldering safe, but in reality it is pretty common especially for beginners to break ankles from bad falls. So it is definitely worthwhile to train falling. Do it by always taking controlled falls from the top hold, never downclimb! Since you fall a lot during just one session, you will soon start to feel okay falling, and getting into a good falling position will come naturally.

Obviously this is assuming you gym is up to standards and has thick padded mats with no zones where your foot might get stuck between two mats (most common cause for injuries).


derpy


Aug 12, 2013, 3:28 PM
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Yeah, that was me Frown I'm glad I only got some aches rather than a broken ankle. It made me a much better climber as I started actually paying attention to how my body was feeling on the wall rather than just scrambling up feeling invulnerable, as though the mats were magic. But I'm sure I've gone waaay too far the other way now. Practice falls it is.

And yes it's thick mats with no seams so I'm okay on that score.


derpy


Sep 2, 2013, 10:54 AM
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Well, I probably shouldn't have written that last post, because the very next evening I:

1) Practiced falling a lot until I felt much more comfortable with it
2) Had a go at keeping going even when I felt a bit precarious
3) In doing so, took an unexpected fall with a less than perfect landing and hurt my ankle :/

It took about a fortnight to heal well enough to climb on at all (on my very first outdoor trip which had been scheduled for months!!), and it'll probably be another week or two before it's 100%, so I'm not exactly in a hurry to repeat the exercise. I'm thinking perhaps my previous caution was not entirely unwarranted after all. Really discouraging, basically.

I think when I'm able to again I'll keep practicing falling, but I'll give the actually risking unplanned falls part a miss until I'm really TRULY certain I'm going to do it properly and not injure myself.


wonderwoman


Sep 3, 2013, 1:52 PM
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derpy wrote:
In doing so, took an unexpected fall with a less than perfect landing and hurt my ankle :/

I am sorry you got hurt! Can you describe what happened? Do you know why you got injured? These are important things to evaluate to protect yourself in the future.

For instance, did the belayer give you a hard catch, causing you to slam into the wall? Or was it an overhang above slab? Were you in an awkward position?

I'd love to hear more details about the fall, and hope you have a smooth recovery.


derpy


Sep 3, 2013, 3:53 PM
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Thanks for the interest and sympathy, I'm feeling pretty sorry for/annoyed with myself right now! It's not too serious though, luckily, really just an annoyance. For which I'm thankful, believe me.

Details: I was bouldering indoors, doing a route that is a grade higher than my usual. Got one hand on the final hold, really wanted to match it to properly finish the route. Stayed up there trying, gave up, started to come down, then realised my grip was completely gone and I was going to come off the wall like it or not, so jumped off intentionally. Landed on both feet and bent my knees (*phew*), but then fell over my left side, and twisted my left ankle a bit under me, inwards.

I got up and walked away just wincing a bit, but about half an hour after that it got really painful to walk on and I had to bus home. I did all the RICE stuff by the book for the next week, although the week after that I couldn't (climbing outdoors was totally worth it though, wow). Right now, three weeks on, I have full range of movement and no pain so it's looking good, but the stability isn't quite there yet and it does get a bit achey after about 1 mile of continuous walking. At this rate of improvement it should be back to normal soon enough though.

Honestly the previous time I'd climed there was no way I would still have been up there trying to get my second hand up - it's completely unlike me, I normally climb down at the slightest feeling of uncertainty. I was just SO DETERMINED that time, partly because I'd decided fear of falling was something I needed to push past more, I'd JUST practiced jumping five minutes before and it had gone fine, etc. And also because I knew I was tired and it was my last climb of the day, and that the wall was going to get rerouted that weekend, so it was my VERY LAST CHANCE to get it. Blar blar. Obviously a few practice goes is not enough to make me good at falling safely, unlike some of the people I climb with who seem to be naturals at it, the buggers.


blueshrimp


Sep 4, 2013, 10:31 PM
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derpy wrote:
Thanks for the interest and sympathy, I'm feeling pretty sorry for/annoyed with myself right now! It's not too serious though, luckily, really just an annoyance. For which I'm thankful, believe me.

Details: I was bouldering indoors, doing a route that is a grade higher than my usual. Got one hand on the final hold, really wanted to match it to properly finish the route. Stayed up there trying, gave up, started to come down, then realised my grip was completely gone and I was going to come off the wall like it or not, so jumped off intentionally. Landed on both feet and bent my knees (*phew*), but then fell over my left side, and twisted my left ankle a bit under me, inwards.

I got up and walked away just wincing a bit, but about half an hour after that it got really painful to walk on and I had to bus home. I did all the RICE stuff by the book for the next week, although the week after that I couldn't (climbing outdoors was totally worth it though, wow). Right now, three weeks on, I have full range of movement and no pain so it's looking good, but the stability isn't quite there yet and it does get a bit achey after about 1 mile of continuous walking. At this rate of improvement it should be back to normal soon enough though.

Honestly the previous time I'd climed there was no way I would still have been up there trying to get my second hand up - it's completely unlike me, I normally climb down at the slightest feeling of uncertainty. I was just SO DETERMINED that time, partly because I'd decided fear of falling was something I needed to push past more, I'd JUST practiced jumping five minutes before and it had gone fine, etc. And also because I knew I was tired and it was my last climb of the day, and that the wall was going to get rerouted that weekend, so it was my VERY LAST CHANCE to get it. Blar blar. Obviously a few practice goes is not enough to make me good at falling safely, unlike some of the people I climb with who seem to be naturals at it, the buggers.

If I were to hazard a guess, I would say that you're thinking too much about how to fall, thus you fall wrong.

Falling correctly is instinctual. We know how to jump off and fall off things as kids, we learn it as babies. As you become an adult when falling is no longer socially acceptable (people will laugh at you) you learn to fear tripping and falling, thus you resist the fall, and "unlearn" to let your body do what it needs to do to regain its balance on its own.

What has helped me relearn how to fall is not to just go to the bouldering wall and fall off the top hold countless of times (thus repeating the "wrong" way to fall countless of times and helping nothing), but to instead learn to fall/jump like a baby. I went and did this:

1. Start at the curb side of a sidewalk. Jump off it. It is only 10 cms, but jump off it onto the street. Don't think. Just enjoy it. Let your knees and feet do their thing naturally. Don't think about "how to land". It is 10 cms so thinking is too slow anyway. Jump 10 times until you see how fun/easy it is and until you learn/remember what the final body position feels like when it hits the ground comfortably and stably.

2. Find a little ledge on a street or staircase that's twice as high. 30 cms or so. Jump once or twice onto the pavement (yes, the HARD pavement!). Jump UP and fall more than the 30 cms. You'll note that sometimes one feet lands before the other. No problem. Don't control it, let your body do it all alone. Just remember how relaxed and smooth the body feels like as it bends down upon touching the ground and then rises back up again as you stand erect at the end of the jump.

3. From the same 30 cm ledge, turn around and face the ledge. Jump to the ground while facing the ledge. At first it will feel weird because kids always jump facing outwards. But climbers often fall facing inwards. Do this 10 times.

4. Little by little increase the height of the ledge until you get to 1 m and you can fall onto concrete, or grass if you're a bit less daring, confidently (use sneakers, don't use wooden-soled shoes because they slip easily on gravel/dirt). Note you almost never hit the ground with both feet at the same time. That's ok. Also note you almost never hit the ground with feet flat and then your knees bend. No, you'll fall with your toes first and then your body falling downards is going to push your knees to bend as your ankles touch the ground after your toes. You don't have to bend the knees consciously. They will bend on their own if you just let your body respond to gravity. Then note how the body automatically "bounces back" as it straightens itself up to stand erect again.

5. Go to gym and repeat on a mat. You will fall sideways or backwards because it is different from falling on concrete and the ground is not stiff enough to hold your balance at first. This is fine. Rolling back or sideways is fine on mats. Let your body roll where it needs to and don't resist it (otherwise you'll twist your ankles, like you did already).

6. Increase height and add spins (i.e. spin around in mid air as you fall to change the direction your facing: i.e. from in towards the wall to facing outwards and vice-versa). This will tell you how to control your body in mid-air so you can avoid possible obstacles below. This is the only thing you consciously control on your fall: what happens in mid-air. Once you land, let your body do its thing naturally, don't fight against it. Don't lock knees, but don't force them to bend, either. If you've practiced in concrete first you'll learn to trust your body's automatic adjustment as it hits the ground. Let the muscles take over and let the brain think "wee!" instead.

Hope that helps.

Oh, forgot to say, also let your arms do their thing, too. Sometimes as you fall your body crouches and your arms /hands touch the ground for balance. This is also fine, just let it happen and stop thinking about how it should happen and trying to direct it. But in order to stop thinking you first have to remember how the body does things automatically on its own on small steps (like the curb of a sidewalk). Just like a little kid.

-E.


blueshrimp


Sep 4, 2013, 10:55 PM
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One more thought: Pretend you're a cat.

If you look at how cats fall, they NEVER, ever, ever, land with all 4 feet at once. The most graceful landings land each foot one right after the other in quick succession. So no no to both feet flat at once.

Here's a cool slow motion of a cat landing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FA2Y1bYkqiM .

Another thing re: cats: They always start their landing by twisting their head to look at the ground. So look at the ground as you fall, this will help your body automatically position itself in a way that's reasonable. If you're up looking elsewhere at the cute chick walking by chances are your ankles won't know where/when/how to land.

Happy jumping!


derpy


Sep 5, 2013, 9:18 AM
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Thanks, that was lovely advice and I'll definitely try the suggestions, especially jumping off things facing inwards and twisting in the air, those both seem particularly useful.

For what it's worth I'm actually the kind of person who pretty much always jumps on and off things if there is any such opportunity when just walking about. When I was practicing falling from the bouldering wall I was surprised at how easy it was - as you say, I didn't think about how I landed, it all felt pretty natural.

I'm 90% sure that the difference for me is that when it's an involuntary fall I panic and tense up, and then all of that good stuff goes out of the window. I was assuming my body would automatically revert to muscle memory from the successful practice falls but it clearly doesn't work that way if you're in a completely different state of mind.

I think one exercise I'll try when I feel IJ jumping again is trying to do it more immediately after I've decided to, instead of taking a few seconds to get really comfortable and relaxed and triple check no one's wandering into my landing area and all that. I don't mean to not be comfortable or not check where I'm going, but shortening the time it takes to do that so I can do it QUICKLY without getting flustered.


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