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dagibbs
Aug 22, 2013, 2:03 PM
Post #26 of 41
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potreroed wrote: budman wrote: I personally like using the rope itself. Figure 8 on a bite with at least one clove hitch if it's a bolted anchor or two if it's a gear anchor. You can adjust you to the anchor with one of the clove hitches. I know this is not a personal anchor system separate from the rope but it is low tech, simple, saves weight. and the rope stretches more than runners no matter what runners you use. Ck out DMM's testing of runners used at the anchor. When I aid climb the system does change. I use daisies and the like but I am always aware of the short comings at the anchor. This works fine while going up but what do you tether yourself with when you're rapping down and you're not tied into the rope?
You just need to walk-off from everything.
Ok, I was just climbing in the UK recently, (almost) everything there is walk-off, they don't seem to believe in bolted belay stations, or bolted rappels (abseils).
But, yeah, I was thinking the same thing, especially with the multi-pitch rappel descents at EPC.
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budman
Aug 22, 2013, 7:07 PM
Post #27 of 41
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Actually you should read the post Ed, he did not ask what to do if you were rapping down. Want's to know an easy quick way to get into more than one piece safely. If your only concern is to rap off at the top of the pitch then clipping into the anchor with 2 points, I prefer 2 long runners and 4 regular binners, and start your rap procedure. I usually spend more time on multi pitch trade climbs, so going up fast is of my utmost concern. For you it looks like getting off as soon as possible is most important.
What works for one person may not work for another. Choose the system that works best for you as long as it is safe. Redundancy in the system is critical as well as the rated strengths of the gear you are using, e.g. don't use your shoe lace to tie in if it's not rated to do so.
Fast and light is right when it comes to my climbing. If you need something extra to anchor in with by all means do so. It just means bringing something else.
(This post was edited by budman on Aug 22, 2013, 9:52 PM)
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potreroed
Aug 22, 2013, 10:41 PM
Post #28 of 41
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budman wrote: For you it looks like getting off as soon as possible is most important. What works for one person may not work for another. Choose the system that works best for you as long as it is safe. Redundancy in the system is critical as well as the rated strengths of the gear you are using, e.g. don't use your shoe lace to tie in if it's not rated to do so.
That first sentence is not true, but what goes up must come down.
Your last sentence is very true.
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jmeizis
Aug 23, 2013, 1:00 AM
Post #29 of 41
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potreroed wrote: This works fine while going up but what do you tether yourself with when you're rapping down and you're not tied into the rope?
You can still use the rope, just use the back side of the clove hitch. I wouldn't bother though, it's more time consuming. Good to know how to do though.
On a single pitch, clove to the opposite side of your tie in, pull up the other end of the rope, thread through the anchor and then clip in to rappel. System would work similarly on multipitch but like I said, time consuming.
Really for single pitch sport just use two draws or two slings. They're things you should already have and they're relatively inexpensive. The thing with the whole PAS craze is the way people use them generally adds no redundancy, they're overpriced and can basically only be used for one thing. Waste of money in my opinion.
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potreroed
Aug 23, 2013, 2:29 AM
Post #30 of 41
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jmeizis wrote: potreroed wrote: This works fine while going up but what do you tether yourself with when you're rapping down and you're not tied into the rope? The thing with the whole PAS craze is the way people use them generally adds no redundancy, they're overpriced and can basically only be used for one thing. Waste of money in my opinion.
Sounds like you don't do any aid climbing.
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blueeyedclimber
Aug 23, 2013, 3:01 AM
Post #31 of 41
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potreroed wrote: budman wrote: I personally like using the rope itself. Figure 8 on a bite with at least one clove hitch if it's a bolted anchor or two if it's a gear anchor. You can adjust you to the anchor with one of the clove hitches. I know this is not a personal anchor system separate from the rope but it is low tech, simple, saves weight. and the rope stretches more than runners no matter what runners you use. Ck out DMM's testing of runners used at the anchor. When I aid climb the system does change. I use daisies and the like but I am always aware of the short comings at the anchor. This works fine while going up but what do you tether yourself with when you're rapping down and you're not tied into the rope?
A sling and a locker achieves the same thing. PAS's are unnecessary.
Josh
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blueeyedclimber
Aug 23, 2013, 3:02 AM
Post #32 of 41
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potreroed wrote: jmeizis wrote: potreroed wrote: This works fine while going up but what do you tether yourself with when you're rapping down and you're not tied into the rope? The thing with the whole PAS craze is the way people use them generally adds no redundancy, they're overpriced and can basically only be used for one thing. Waste of money in my opinion. Sounds like you don't do any aid climbing.
That's unfair. In no way was the OP talking about Aid climbing, which are probably the only legitimate use for them. The OP was talking about their use in free climbing.
Josh
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potreroed
Aug 23, 2013, 5:51 AM
Post #33 of 41
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blueeyedclimber wrote: potreroed wrote: jmeizis wrote: potreroed wrote: This works fine while going up but what do you tether yourself with when you're rapping down and you're not tied into the rope? The thing with the whole PAS craze is the way people use them generally adds no redundancy, they're overpriced and can basically only be used for one thing. Waste of money in my opinion. Sounds like you don't do any aid climbing. That's unfair. In no way was the OP talking about Aid climbing, which are probably the only legitimate use for them. The OP was talking about their use in free climbing. Josh
I like climbing gear that has multiple uses. Another example is I always use a chalk-bag belt that can be used as a full-strength runner.
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blueeyedclimber
Aug 23, 2013, 11:59 AM
Post #34 of 41
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potreroed wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: potreroed wrote: jmeizis wrote: potreroed wrote: This works fine while going up but what do you tether yourself with when you're rapping down and you're not tied into the rope? The thing with the whole PAS craze is the way people use them generally adds no redundancy, they're overpriced and can basically only be used for one thing. Waste of money in my opinion. Sounds like you don't do any aid climbing. That's unfair. In no way was the OP talking about Aid climbing, which are probably the only legitimate use for them. The OP was talking about their use in free climbing. Josh I like climbing gear that has multiple uses. Another example is I always use a chalk-bag belt that can be used as a full-strength runner.
I don't disagree with that, which is why I don't like the PAS in a free climbing situation. I figure I am already carrying gear that will accomplish the same thing so why carry anything extra?
Josh
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potreroed
Aug 23, 2013, 8:25 PM
Post #35 of 41
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blueeyedclimber wrote: potreroed wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: potreroed wrote: jmeizis wrote: potreroed wrote: This works fine while going up but what do you tether yourself with when you're rapping down and you're not tied into the rope? The thing with the whole PAS craze is the way people use them generally adds no redundancy, they're overpriced and can basically only be used for one thing. Waste of money in my opinion. Sounds like you don't do any aid climbing. That's unfair. In no way was the OP talking about Aid climbing, which are probably the only legitimate use for them. The OP was talking about their use in free climbing. Josh I like climbing gear that has multiple uses. Another example is I always use a chalk-bag belt that can be used as a full-strength runner. I don't disagree with that, which is why I don't like the PAS in a free climbing situation. I figure I am already carrying gear that will accomplish the same thing so why carry anything extra? Josh
I guess it all boils down to different strokes for different folks--I like having a PAS or a Purcell Prusik tethered to my harness at all times.
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chris
Aug 29, 2013, 3:17 PM
Post #36 of 41
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Registered: Feb 4, 2003
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potreroed wrote: I guess it all boils down to different strokes for different folks--I like having a PAS or a Purcell Prusik tethered to my harness at all times.
Hi Ed - I may get to see you this November!! Whoop!!
I carry an double-length sling and an autoblock cord on every climb. During the ascent I use the rope to anchor off, and during the descent I employ the double-length sling to extend my rappel/belay device and provide a personal anchor.
I like this system because the double length sling can be co-opted for protection or anchors when needed on the ascent. It also cuts down on the clutter around my waist - I keep the sling knotted up and racked towards the back.
Hopefully I'll see you this November, and we can talk gear more then. Cheers.
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cracklover
Aug 29, 2013, 7:27 PM
Post #37 of 41
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Registered: Nov 14, 2002
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potreroed wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: potreroed wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: potreroed wrote: jmeizis wrote: potreroed wrote: This works fine while going up but what do you tether yourself with when you're rapping down and you're not tied into the rope? The thing with the whole PAS craze is the way people use them generally adds no redundancy, they're overpriced and can basically only be used for one thing. Waste of money in my opinion. Sounds like you don't do any aid climbing. That's unfair. In no way was the OP talking about Aid climbing, which are probably the only legitimate use for them. The OP was talking about their use in free climbing. Josh I like climbing gear that has multiple uses. Another example is I always use a chalk-bag belt that can be used as a full-strength runner. I don't disagree with that, which is why I don't like the PAS in a free climbing situation. I figure I am already carrying gear that will accomplish the same thing so why carry anything extra? Josh I guess it all boils down to different strokes for different folks--I like having a PAS or a Purcell Prusik tethered to my harness at all times.
And you like aid climbing with a PAS? Seriously?
Let's face it, the PAS is the right tool for nothing.
For me, the best "personal anchoring system" is the rope, a sling, or two draws, depending on what the situation calls for. It's as simple as that.
GO
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potreroed
Aug 29, 2013, 8:46 PM
Post #38 of 41
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cracklover wrote: potreroed wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: potreroed wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: potreroed wrote: jmeizis wrote: potreroed wrote: This works fine while going up but what do you tether yourself with when you're rapping down and you're not tied into the rope? The thing with the whole PAS craze is the way people use them generally adds no redundancy, they're overpriced and can basically only be used for one thing. Waste of money in my opinion. Sounds like you don't do any aid climbing. That's unfair. In no way was the OP talking about Aid climbing, which are probably the only legitimate use for them. The OP was talking about their use in free climbing. Josh I like climbing gear that has multiple uses. Another example is I always use a chalk-bag belt that can be used as a full-strength runner. I don't disagree with that, which is why I don't like the PAS in a free climbing situation. I figure I am already carrying gear that will accomplish the same thing so why carry anything extra? Josh I guess it all boils down to different strokes for different folks--I like having a PAS or a Purcell Prusik tethered to my harness at all times. And you like aid climbing with a PAS? Seriously? Let's face it, the PAS is the right tool for nothing. For me, the best "personal anchoring system" is the rope, a sling, or two draws, depending on what the situation calls for. It's as simple as that. GO
Like I said, to each their own. I do a lot of aid climbing and I use two PAS and an adjustable fifi hook. Have you done any aid climbing? What type of daisy did you use??
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wivanoff
Aug 29, 2013, 10:29 PM
Post #39 of 41
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chris wrote: I carry an double-length sling and an autoblock cord on every climb. During the ascent I use the rope to anchor off, and during the descent I employ the double-length sling to extend my rappel/belay device and provide a personal anchor.
I do something similar - except I use a long loop made of 6mm cord. I tie my chalk bag around my waist with a sheet bend. Useful for extending the rap device & personal anchor at rap stations, load releasable knots, holding my chalk bag, etc.
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cracklover
Aug 30, 2013, 2:08 PM
Post #40 of 41
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potreroed wrote: cracklover wrote: potreroed wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: potreroed wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: potreroed wrote: jmeizis wrote: potreroed wrote: This works fine while going up but what do you tether yourself with when you're rapping down and you're not tied into the rope? The thing with the whole PAS craze is the way people use them generally adds no redundancy, they're overpriced and can basically only be used for one thing. Waste of money in my opinion. Sounds like you don't do any aid climbing. That's unfair. In no way was the OP talking about Aid climbing, which are probably the only legitimate use for them. The OP was talking about their use in free climbing. Josh I like climbing gear that has multiple uses. Another example is I always use a chalk-bag belt that can be used as a full-strength runner. I don't disagree with that, which is why I don't like the PAS in a free climbing situation. I figure I am already carrying gear that will accomplish the same thing so why carry anything extra? Josh I guess it all boils down to different strokes for different folks--I like having a PAS or a Purcell Prusik tethered to my harness at all times. And you like aid climbing with a PAS? Seriously? Let's face it, the PAS is the right tool for nothing. For me, the best "personal anchoring system" is the rope, a sling, or two draws, depending on what the situation calls for. It's as simple as that. GO Like I said, to each their own. I do a lot of aid climbing and I use two PAS and an adjustable fifi hook. Have you done any aid climbing? What type of daisy did you use??
I use standard daisies and a fifi. I would hate to have to be messing with the big floppy loops on a PAS while dealing with everything else.
But hey, if it works for you, that's cool.
GO
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dac33
Nov 25, 2013, 12:10 PM
Post #41 of 41
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This page shows you more than enough ways to tie in:
http://people.bath.ac.uk/dac33/high/6TheBelay.htm
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