|
AdGrenoble
Oct 11, 2013, 10:12 AM
Post #1 of 13
(6597 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 11, 2013
Posts: 16
|
While for really high grades I understand the need to spend time letting muscle memory in to send the problem, some people try a given V4-V5 problems dozens of time (could be for a whole session).
I am sending (indoors) about 50% of the V4s I try, but no V5 yet. Should I keep practicing V4s within my reach to get better/stronger or project to complete a V5? Spending hours trying a V5 seems like I am trying too hard just to achieve a grade but who knows...
|
|
|
|
|
Gravitron5000
Oct 11, 2013, 2:12 PM
Post #2 of 13
(6562 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 16, 2007
Posts: 48
|
Yes you should keep practising V4s within your reach. Yes you should project V5s (and harder), as attempting to pull harder moves will make you stronger. It also would not hurt working on the V4s you can not send (as they likely are indicative of your weak areas). If you don't try hard, how do you expect to improve?
|
|
|
|
|
lena_chita
Moderator
Oct 11, 2013, 6:14 PM
Post #3 of 13
(6523 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 27, 2006
Posts: 6087
|
If you just keep climbing the same problems that you can already do, you are unlikely to just magically become able to climb the ones that you can't do.
You can use the problems that you can do to refine your technique, to work on endurance, etc. But you absolutely have to keep trying the things that you cannot yet do, in order to improve.
If you can do about half of the V4s that you try, what is it about the remaining V4s that make them not-doable for you?
|
|
|
|
|
pedro_sandchez
Oct 14, 2013, 8:06 PM
Post #4 of 13
(6410 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 30, 2007
Posts: 31
|
As many times as it takes to send!
More specifically, I like to build a nice pyramid of grades when I'm trying to get a new notch in the belt. For example, to get to v5, I would look at the problems I have done in the last couple of weeks and see if when written down it forms a nice pyramid, like this:
V4 V4
V3 V3 V3 V3
V2 V2 V2 V2 V2 V2
Having finished 2 v4's wouldn't really mean I'm ready to send v5, but it at least means I'm in the ball park to start projecting them.
My sessions would then start to look something like this:
-warm up with some traversing/laps on v0/v1.
-chill and stretch for a bit.
-a couple v2's and a v3
-chill and stretch for a bit.
-repeat one of the v4's I've done previously to assess how I'm feeling.
-start sampling the v5's. I'll just usually try a few moves of four or five problems just see if anything seems inspring or I'll ask around for reccomendations.
-work that problem like mad
-send, or don't send, but either way get really tired.
-long rest, try a couple of v4's
-cool down on 2's and 3's
-go home and have a beer
Even more important is knowing how to thoughtfully project a problem.
I work hard problems from the top down.
I'll break a problem into about three sections depending on length. I'll then dial the top section. THen the middle sections, and finally the bottom. As I perfect one section I then focus on linking it to the next highest section.
So, if a problem has 12 moves, that is 3 four move sections. I'll dial the top four. Then dial the middle fore. Then link the two together. Then dial the bottom four. Then send.
Realistically, the sending usually comes on a later session, since figuring out all of the moves is usually pretty energy sapping when at your limit and sometimes it takes one whole session just to figure out a single section of something truly at your limit
Hope this is of some benefit.
Adam
(This post was edited by pedro_sandchez on Oct 14, 2013, 8:37 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
dagibbs
Oct 31, 2013, 9:24 PM
Post #5 of 13
(6009 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 1, 2007
Posts: 921
|
pedro_sandchez wrote: I work hard problems from the top down. I'll break a problem into about three sections depending on length. I'll then dial the top section. THen the middle sections, and finally the bottom. Adam
Breaking a hard problem into sections makes sense to me -- but why do you work them top-down, rather than bottom-up?
|
|
|
|
|
edge
Oct 31, 2013, 9:49 PM
Post #6 of 13
(6001 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 14, 2003
Posts: 9120
|
dagibbs wrote: pedro_sandchez wrote: I work hard problems from the top down. I'll break a problem into about three sections depending on length. I'll then dial the top section. THen the middle sections, and finally the bottom. Adam Breaking a hard problem into sections makes sense to me -- but why do you work them top-down, rather than bottom-up?
I personally don't work problems very often, but I've known several people who work a route top-down. Their reasoning is that psychologically you are topping out each time. I suspect that by dialing in the top, you will also have a better chance of being efficient and sending when you are pumped. Like most things though, it probably depends on the route how effective this technique is.
|
|
|
|
|
jomagam
Nov 1, 2013, 3:15 AM
Post #7 of 13
(5967 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2008
Posts: 364
|
dagibbs wrote: Breaking a hard problem into sections makes sense to me -- but why do you work them top-down, rather than bottom-up?
Because you'll be more tired at the top, so you want those moves wired even more.
|
|
|
|
|
dagibbs
Nov 1, 2013, 3:31 AM
Post #8 of 13
(5963 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 1, 2007
Posts: 921
|
jomagam wrote: dagibbs wrote: Breaking a hard problem into sections makes sense to me -- but why do you work them top-down, rather than bottom-up? Because you'll be more tired at the top, so you want those moves wired even more.
Sure, but if you get the early moves more wired, you'll be less tired at the end.
But, mostly, what if you find that the way you come into a sequence is different from what you anticipated -- hands and/or feet not positioned the way you worked from?
|
|
|
|
|
jomagam
Nov 1, 2013, 3:43 AM
Post #9 of 13
(5956 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2008
Posts: 364
|
dagibbs wrote: jomagam wrote: dagibbs wrote: Breaking a hard problem into sections makes sense to me -- but why do you work them top-down, rather than bottom-up? Because you'll be more tired at the top, so you want those moves wired even more. Sure, but if you get the early moves more wired, you'll be less tired at the end. But, mostly, what if you find that the way you come into a sequence is different from what you anticipated -- hands and/or feet not positioned the way you worked from?
Obviously you break up a route into sections that make sense; between jugs for example where you can reset your limbs. Doing it from the top also means that you're working the new moves fresh after a rest.
Do what works for you and the route. It'd be hard to go from the top on a 45 degree overhanging route.
|
|
|
|
|
Pedrolius
Nov 1, 2013, 5:35 AM
Post #10 of 13
(5942 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 17, 2013
Posts: 13
|
If you don't care too much about the grade start making your own problems. Most gym problems (or boulder problems in general) have pretty subjective grades anyway.
Making your own problems can be heaps more motivating too, compared to that old taped problem you've tried a million times. Find a move you can JUST do, and then add another move you can JUST do... See how many more you can link together.
Try to make a problem with some sweet movement in it, or make a semi difficult circuit style problem (or figure 8) and see how many laps you can do without falling off or touching the ground!
Have a good time ignoring the grades and push yourself with fun hard moves and getting psyched on your own Vwhoknows problems.
At the very least it can be a good way to pass the time between frustrating attempt #125 and frustrating attempt #126 on that green V5.
|
|
|
|
|
5.samadhi
Nov 5, 2013, 10:48 PM
Post #11 of 13
(5806 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 31, 2011
Posts: 98
|
dagibbs wrote: pedro_sandchez wrote: I work hard problems from the top down. I'll break a problem into about three sections depending on length. I'll then dial the top section. THen the middle sections, and finally the bottom. Adam Breaking a hard problem into sections makes sense to me -- but why do you work them top-down, rather than bottom-up?
|
|
|
|
|
Gmburns2000
Nov 5, 2013, 11:39 PM
Post #12 of 13
(5791 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 6, 2007
Posts: 15266
|
5.samadhi wrote: dagibbs wrote: pedro_sandchez wrote: I work hard problems from the top down. I'll break a problem into about three sections depending on length. I'll then dial the top section. THen the middle sections, and finally the bottom. Adam Breaking a hard problem into sections makes sense to me -- but why do you work them top-down, rather than bottom-up? because thats what some sick japanese boulderer said on a video and I want to be like him.
Ground up dudes, ground up.
|
|
|
|
|
flesh
Nov 6, 2013, 9:38 PM
Post #13 of 13
(5715 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 11, 2011
Posts: 419
|
I suggest 10 of each grade before moving on. You progress faster.
|
|
|
|
|
|
