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agnivsen


Dec 16, 2014, 11:44 PM
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Identifying the reason behind under-performance
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Need help with identifying loop holes in my training plan.

I'm 27 and I started rock climbing about 2 years ago.
Although very haphazard in the beginning, for the last 5 - 6 months, I have been going through a relatively planned routine of training and climbing outdoors.
I practice bouldering in a gym 4/5 days a week and try to get to the outdoors once or twice a month, mostly on weekends.

For the last few weeks, I find myself stuck in a plateau. I'm finding it very difficult to figure out if the plateau came from over-training or from the lack of training.

Here's what seems to be going wrong:

1) I've several minor injuries in my upper body, some of which had been there for more than a month. I've tried resting and icing them for days. They mitigate to certain level, but do not seem to go away altogether.

2) Recurring finger pain, especially in the knuckles of my right-middle finger and left index finger. So far, I have been climbing despite the pain, ignoring it to the best of my abilities. But, even after 3/4 days of complete rest, the finger pain comes back after 5 mins of warm-up on jug holds.
(However, the pain is usually on the milder side. Hopefully, not strong enough to warrant medical attention)

3) Recurring wrist pain

4) I manage to climb V2/V3 grade problems at the most, that too when I'm feeling very psyched. On a bad day, I falter at V0/V1s. So far, I haven't gone any farther and I've been stuck at this level for quite a while.

5) Inability to stitch together harder problems. When I see a tough pitch, I can break it down to smaller "sub-problems" and send them one by one. But I can't seem to stitch these routes to send the complete route in one go.
(I think I have a power-endurance issue here, not sure though)

6) I never manage to flash problems, even the easier ones. If I climb a V2 in 8 attempts, I'll climb a V0 in 3. I never seem to send anything in the first attempt.


Please help me identify where I stand...

am I hurting because of over-training? or am I being pansy and I need to bear the pain and just punch through to even harder training/hang-boarding/workouts etc. ???


kennoyce


Dec 17, 2014, 6:04 AM
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agnivsen wrote:
Need help with identifying loop holes in my training plan.

I'm 27 and I started rock climbing about 2 years ago.
Although very haphazard in the beginning, for the last 5 - 6 months, I have been going through a relatively planned routine of training and climbing outdoors.
I practice bouldering in a gym 4/5 days a week and try to get to the outdoors once or twice a month, mostly on weekends.

For the last few weeks, I find myself stuck in a plateau. I'm finding it very difficult to figure out if the plateau came from over-training or from the lack of training.

Here's what seems to be going wrong:

1) I've several minor injuries in my upper body, some of which had been there for more than a month. I've tried resting and icing them for days. They mitigate to certain level, but do not seem to go away altogether.

2) Recurring finger pain, especially in the knuckles of my right-middle finger and left index finger. So far, I have been climbing despite the pain, ignoring it to the best of my abilities. But, even after 3/4 days of complete rest, the finger pain comes back after 5 mins of warm-up on jug holds.
(However, the pain is usually on the milder side. Hopefully, not strong enough to warrant medical attention)

3) Recurring wrist pain

4) I manage to climb V2/V3 grade problems at the most, that too when I'm feeling very psyched. On a bad day, I falter at V0/V1s. So far, I haven't gone any farther and I've been stuck at this level for quite a while.

5) Inability to stitch together harder problems. When I see a tough pitch, I can break it down to smaller "sub-problems" and send them one by one. But I can't seem to stitch these routes to send the complete route in one go.
(I think I have a power-endurance issue here, not sure though)

6) I never manage to flash problems, even the easier ones. If I climb a V2 in 8 attempts, I'll climb a V0 in 3. I never seem to send anything in the first attempt.


Please help me identify where I stand...

am I hurting because of over-training? or am I being pansy and I need to bear the pain and just punch through to even harder training/hang-boarding/workouts etc. ???

Buy and read "Rock Climbers Training Manual" by Mark and Mike Anderson. It will answer all of your questions and teach you how to actually "train".


Gravitron5000


Dec 17, 2014, 6:30 AM
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I'll take a stab. Plateaus are normal, and breaking through them takes work.

agnivsen wrote:
I practice bouldering in a gym 4/5 days a week and try to get to the outdoors once or twice a month, mostly on weekends.

4-5 days a week of bouldering at your limit can be quite hard on the body. You might want to dial it back a bit. Consider substituting in some volume days climbing many problems well below your limit or getting on a rope and working on easy/moderate routes.

agnivsen wrote:
1) I've several minor injuries in my upper body, some of which had been there for more than a month. I've tried resting and icing them for days. They mitigate to certain level, but do not seem to go away altogether.

I would get those dealt with. Minor injuries tend to accumulate if you don't do anything to fix them. Personally I would consider getting an assessment from a physiotherapist.

agnivsen wrote:
2) Recurring finger pain, especially in the knuckles of my right-middle finger and left index finger. So far, I have been climbing despite the pain, ignoring it to the best of my abilities. But, even after 3/4 days of complete rest, the finger pain comes back after 5 mins of warm-up on jug holds.
(However, the pain is usually on the milder side. Hopefully, not strong enough to warrant medical attention)

I'm no doctor, so take this with a grain of salt. If the pain is sharp or acute, then it needs to be dealt with properly. Also 3-4 days is almost no time at all for a tendon issue to heal. If it is a dull ache, I just push through. Ice and joint massage has helped me a lot for hand issues, sharp or dull.

agnivsen wrote:
3) Recurring wrist pain

Not enough info. I get wrist pain when working slopers too much and neglecting antagonist muscle exercises. Maybe you would benefit from some reverse writs curls.

agnivsen wrote:
4) I manage to climb V2/V3 grade problems at the most, that too when I'm feeling very psyched. On a bad day, I falter at V0/V1s. So far, I haven't gone any farther and I've been stuck at this level for quite a while.

Work on the problems you can do, and make sure that they are climbed perfectly. Climbing with good technique should help your consistency. Also, having a good fitness base will help with consistency. It's hard to improve if you don't have a solid base to improve from.

agnivsen wrote:
5) Inability to stitch together harder problems. When I see a tough pitch, I can break it down to smaller "sub-problems" and send them one by one. But I can't seem to stitch these routes to send the complete route in one go.
(I think I have a power-endurance issue here, not sure though)

Sounds like a power endurance/plain old endurance problem to me. Spending a lot of time climbing easy problems or easy/moderate routes will probably help.

agnivsen wrote:
6) I never manage to flash problems, even the easier ones. If I climb a V2 in 8 attempts, I'll climb a V0 in 3. I never seem to send anything in the first attempt.

Learning to flash problems comes from experience. If you've seen every move under the sun, then reading problems becomes much easier. Get a lot of volume in. Drills like the stick game (someone with a stick points to the next hold to use while you are on the wall), and add on (each person to climb a problem adds a new hold to the end of the problem) are good as well.

agnivsen wrote:
am I hurting because of over-training? or am I being pansy and I need to bear the pain and just punch through to even harder training/hang-boarding/workouts etc. ???

At the V2 level you are more likely to injure yourself on a hangboard than to build strength.

If I were you, I would limit my in gym training to 4 times a week. Two of those would be volume days, where you want to get as many moves in as possible without worrying too much about difficulty. On the volume days, you should also work basic technique to ensure that you are climbing well and not just accumulating bad habits. On the bouldering days, I would spend one day working problems that are at and below your limit. The second day I would spend bouldering at and above your limit. Make sure you warm up well (always), and get your injuries dealt with.


agnivsen


Dec 17, 2014, 8:23 AM
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Thanks for the comment. But look at this:


...you talking about this book? Seriously a $1000 book, eh? Unsure OK, it figures high on my bucket list.

Meanwhile, I had been mugging up "Self-Coached Climber: The Guide to Movement, Training, Performance".
Attachments: Book.JPG (67.9 KB)


agnivsen


Dec 17, 2014, 8:24 AM
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I never expected such a well thought out and detailed answer to my post. Thanks a ton.

After going through your reply and after re-evaluating myself, here's what I figured out:

1. Finger pain can be ignored. It is really more of a dull throb, I guess it's mild enough to be overlooked.

2. I need to go easy on the intensity of bouldering and work towards improving my basic technique

3. Work on creating a better base of fitness

4. Work on endurance/power endurance

5. Go easy on the hangboard, perhaps not do it at all until I improve my grade to V4/V5

6. I really need to get my wrist fixed. That is one nagging injury/pain which had been troubling me for months now. (I got it injured while doing a figure-of-four)


granite_grrl


Dec 17, 2014, 10:47 AM
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agnivsen wrote:
Thanks for the comment. But look at this:


...you talking about this book? Seriously a $1000 book, eh? Unsure OK, it figures high on my bucket list.

Meanwhile, I had been mugging up "Self-Coached Climber: The Guide to Movement, Training, Performance".

Look around. Buy right from their site:
http://rockclimberstrainingmanual.com/...ers-training-manual/

I bought mine from MEC in Canada (note - I am Canadian).
http://www.mec.ca/...biner%27s%2Btraining


Gravitron5000


Dec 17, 2014, 2:56 PM
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The Self Coached Climber is decent. The Rock Climber's Training Manual is in my opinion better formatted and provides a much clearer guideline to training, especially towards structured training routines. I got a copy for around $30.


agnivsen


Dec 17, 2014, 10:01 PM
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NICE!!!

I'm getting this ASAP. Cool


lena_chita
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Dec 18, 2014, 7:56 AM
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agnivsen wrote:
Thanks for the comment. But look at this:


...you talking about this book? Seriously a $1000 book, eh? Unsure OK, it figures high on my bucket list.

Meanwhile, I had been mugging up "Self-Coached Climber: The Guide to Movement, Training, Performance".

While Rock Climber's Training Manual is an awesome book that I have and use for training (and no, it certainly does not cost $1000), I don't think it is quite applicable to your situation yet. The book is a periodization training plan that puts training strength, power, power-endurance, endurance, and performance into a bigger picture of how to plan not just one workout, but an entire season.

BUT... IMO it is aimed at people who have a solid base of technique and climbing experience, and climb at a bit higher difficulty than you currently do. It is not a book that discusses movement training, and it assumes that you already know what ARCing is, and 4x4s, etc. and don't need help figuring out how to do it.
It sounds like you have barely a year of regimented climbing under your belt. It is much more likely at this stage that you will see more results from working on your technique, stamina and endurance, than you would from hangboard training.

Anecdotal experience of couple people I know who climb at ~5.10-5.11 range suggests that they were not really seeing much in terms of results after attempting to follow the Rockprodigy plan. It was frustrating to them because they couldn't even pick 6-7 different holds on the hangboard that they could hang on, even with subtraction of ~60 lb. And they couldn't campus even on jugs, let alone campus rungs.

My suggestions for you:

1) scale back to 3-4 climbing sessions per week (that includes outside and inside). Bouldering consecutive days at your top effort is really hard, and all those minor nagging and recurring injuries are your body's way of telling you to slow down.

2) Sounds like you already got Self-Coached Climber book. Have you done self-assessment? There are very helpful tables in the book that break down "you want to climb 5.11c/d" (or other grades) into "you should be able to send V3-V4 after working on it, you should be able to flash V0-V1, you should be able to do ARC at a certain level, do stamina laps at a certain level, etc." It is really helpful because you can immediately see where your weaknesses are, as in, "O.K., I can boulder V3, but i can't do ARC on even 5.9, I should work on that"

3) make sure you structure your gym sessions. Again, SCC has sample suggested plans, for different levels. The gist of it is that you need to make sure you warm up well, and mix up working on maximal level on problems that you can't do yet with working on sub-maximal levels, on problems you can already do, where your goal should be to climb them "perfectly", with as little effort as possible, with good form and technique. There are many movement drills described in SCC, practice them.


jonapprill


Dec 18, 2014, 3:54 PM
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Climbing or training in the gym for 4-5 days/week is too much unless you're really young. Even then its not advisable. Also, too much volume on a particular day isn't good, particularly if you're going to climb again the next day. Good boulderers often work one problem for the whole day and maybe put in a half dozen to a dozen legitimate efforts per day. It all depends on how long the problem is, how sustained the moves are, etc.

Also, ignoring injuries rarely works out well. Especially if there is accompanying inflamation which can be difficult to see. There are plenty of folks out there who have been forced to cut their climbing careers short because of mismanaged injuries.

http://www.mountainproject.com/v/swolen-pip-joints/109364199


agnivsen


Dec 18, 2014, 10:16 PM
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lena_chita wrote:
agnivsen wrote:
Thanks for the comment. But look at this:


...you talking about this book? Seriously a $1000 book, eh? Unsure OK, it figures high on my bucket list.

Meanwhile, I had been mugging up "Self-Coached Climber: The Guide to Movement, Training, Performance".

While Rock Climber's Training Manual is an awesome book that I have and use for training (and no, it certainly does not cost $1000), I don't think it is quite applicable to your situation yet. The book is a periodization training plan that puts training strength, power, power-endurance, endurance, and performance into a bigger picture of how to plan not just one workout, but an entire season.

BUT... IMO it is aimed at people who have a solid base of technique and climbing experience, and climb at a bit higher difficulty than you currently do. It is not a book that discusses movement training, and it assumes that you already know what ARCing is, and 4x4s, etc. and don't need help figuring out how to do it.
It sounds like you have barely a year of regimented climbing under your belt. It is much more likely at this stage that you will see more results from working on your technique, stamina and endurance, than you would from hangboard training.

Anecdotal experience of couple people I know who climb at ~5.10-5.11 range suggests that they were not really seeing much in terms of results after attempting to follow the Rockprodigy plan. It was frustrating to them because they couldn't even pick 6-7 different holds on the hangboard that they could hang on, even with subtraction of ~60 lb. And they couldn't campus even on jugs, let alone campus rungs.

My suggestions for you:

1) scale back to 3-4 climbing sessions per week (that includes outside and inside). Bouldering consecutive days at your top effort is really hard, and all those minor nagging and recurring injuries are your body's way of telling you to slow down.

2) Sounds like you already got Self-Coached Climber book. Have you done self-assessment? There are very helpful tables in the book that break down "you want to climb 5.11c/d" (or other grades) into "you should be able to send V3-V4 after working on it, you should be able to flash V0-V1, you should be able to do ARC at a certain level, do stamina laps at a certain level, etc." It is really helpful because you can immediately see where your weaknesses are, as in, "O.K., I can boulder V3, but i can't do ARC on even 5.9, I should work on that"

3) make sure you structure your gym sessions. Again, SCC has sample suggested plans, for different levels. The gist of it is that you need to make sure you warm up well, and mix up working on maximal level on problems that you can't do yet with working on sub-maximal levels, on problems you can already do, where your goal should be to climb them "perfectly", with as little effort as possible, with good form and technique. There are many movement drills described in SCC, practice them.

Thanks for the analysis. Much appreciated.

I do know a bit about 4x4s and 6x8s. I make it a point to do them once a week. I try to follow the V2 V2 V1 V0 routine for 4x4s and mostly V1s, V0s and Vb- for 6x8s. I do ARC for 45 mins or more, once a week, on 10-15 degree overhang.
And I can manage campus on jug holds.

I have been trying to follow the SCC regimen for the last few months now, to the best of my understanding. Going through your comments and from what Gravitron5000 said, I've figured hangboarding is a bit too much for me at this stage.

I'll avoid that. And campussing too.

I'm trying to improve my technique as much as I can. SCC is a real gem of a training manual.


agnivsen


Dec 18, 2014, 10:25 PM
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jonapprill wrote:
Climbing or training in the gym for 4-5 days/week is too much unless you're really young. Even then its not advisable. Also, too much volume on a particular day isn't good, particularly if you're going to climb again the next day. Good boulderers often work one problem for the whole day and maybe put in a half dozen to a dozen legitimate efforts per day. It all depends on how long the problem is, how sustained the moves are, etc.

Also, ignoring injuries rarely works out well. Especially if there is accompanying inflamation which can be difficult to see. There are plenty of folks out there who have been forced to cut their climbing careers short because of mismanaged injuries.

http://www.mountainproject.com/v/swolen-pip-joints/109364199


Can't agree more. I really wish I started training 10/12 years earlier.

I guess I will have to nurse my injuries now. For as long as it takes. The link you posted was really scary. Thanks Smile


lena_chita
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Dec 19, 2014, 4:09 AM
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agnivsen wrote:
lena_chita wrote:
agnivsen wrote:
Thanks for the comment. But look at this:


...you talking about this book? Seriously a $1000 book, eh? Unsure OK, it figures high on my bucket list.

Meanwhile, I had been mugging up "Self-Coached Climber: The Guide to Movement, Training, Performance".

While Rock Climber's Training Manual is an awesome book that I have and use for training (and no, it certainly does not cost $1000), I don't think it is quite applicable to your situation yet. The book is a periodization training plan that puts training strength, power, power-endurance, endurance, and performance into a bigger picture of how to plan not just one workout, but an entire season.

BUT... IMO it is aimed at people who have a solid base of technique and climbing experience, and climb at a bit higher difficulty than you currently do. It is not a book that discusses movement training, and it assumes that you already know what ARCing is, and 4x4s, etc. and don't need help figuring out how to do it.
It sounds like you have barely a year of regimented climbing under your belt. It is much more likely at this stage that you will see more results from working on your technique, stamina and endurance, than you would from hangboard training.

Anecdotal experience of couple people I know who climb at ~5.10-5.11 range suggests that they were not really seeing much in terms of results after attempting to follow the Rockprodigy plan. It was frustrating to them because they couldn't even pick 6-7 different holds on the hangboard that they could hang on, even with subtraction of ~60 lb. And they couldn't campus even on jugs, let alone campus rungs.

My suggestions for you:

1) scale back to 3-4 climbing sessions per week (that includes outside and inside). Bouldering consecutive days at your top effort is really hard, and all those minor nagging and recurring injuries are your body's way of telling you to slow down.

2) Sounds like you already got Self-Coached Climber book. Have you done self-assessment? There are very helpful tables in the book that break down "you want to climb 5.11c/d" (or other grades) into "you should be able to send V3-V4 after working on it, you should be able to flash V0-V1, you should be able to do ARC at a certain level, do stamina laps at a certain level, etc." It is really helpful because you can immediately see where your weaknesses are, as in, "O.K., I can boulder V3, but i can't do ARC on even 5.9, I should work on that"

3) make sure you structure your gym sessions. Again, SCC has sample suggested plans, for different levels. The gist of it is that you need to make sure you warm up well, and mix up working on maximal level on problems that you can't do yet with working on sub-maximal levels, on problems you can already do, where your goal should be to climb them "perfectly", with as little effort as possible, with good form and technique. There are many movement drills described in SCC, practice them.

Thanks for the analysis. Much appreciated.

I do know a bit about 4x4s and 6x8s. I make it a point to do them once a week. I try to follow the V2 V2 V1 V0 routine for 4x4s and mostly V1s, V0s and Vb- for 6x8s. I do ARC for 45 mins or more, once a week, on 10-15 degree overhang.
And I can manage campus on jug holds.

I have been trying to follow the SCC regimen for the last few months now, to the best of my understanding. Going through your comments and from what Gravitron5000 said, I've figured hangboarding is a bit too much for me at this stage.

I'll avoid that. And campussing too.

I'm trying to improve my technique as much as I can. SCC is a real gem of a training manual.

Yes, SCC is a very helpful book.

In terms of doing 4x4s, I think doing them once a week is not very helpful. This is where the Rock Climbers Training Manual has got things right.

IMO, you should focus on one thing at a time.

For example, make endurance your focus for the next 3-4 weeks. Do longer ARCing at every training session, plan for high volume of easier climbing, and focus on movement drills.

Then switch to power/power-endurance for several weeks, doing it at every session. Warm up (still paying attention to your movement drills during warmup), then work on harder bouldering problems that you can't send yet, again, analyze the moves in terms of what technique you should be applying, where your movement initiation comes from, make small adjustments as you keep trying... and then finish the session with 4x4s (just one set of 4x4, if you feel like you can still climb after doing a 4x4, you need to pick harder problems for it).

It helps if you can pick a goal, and tailor your training to that goal. FOr example, if there is a route you have done in sections, but not put together, try to pick your boulder problems that mimic that route for your 4x4s. If your route has a hard start, then a section of easier climbing, and then another hard section, do the same for your 4x4s. Don't do V2, V1, V0, V0, if your route is more like V1, V0,V0, V2. You might have to start with V2, V1, V1, V0, if that's all you can do, but then switch the problems around after a few sessions when you are getting better. (and you will, if you do them at every session).

But after 3-4 weeks of doing 4x4s at every session, it is time to lay off of them for a period of time, and maybe do stamina laps for a few weeks. And then go back to endurance, and work up to a higher level than in the previous cycle.

And by all means, you should but Rock Climber's Training manual and read it. If it is not applicable now, it would be in a year or so.


agnivsen


Dec 20, 2014, 9:03 PM
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One potential problem where I think I'm really doing something wrong (and I guess its easy for many others to get this wrong in the begining) is while doing 4x4s, I don't think I'm pushing it hard enough. Sometimes 4x4 feels like a breeze. I think that is wrong.

I just have one question though... is it OK if I crank up 4x4s to a level where I can't go beyond 3/4 moves in one attempt ? Say my maximum bouldering grade is V3. Can I set up my 4x4s with V4 or V5? I can manage a few moves of a V5. Maybe not the crux, maybe not the part with terrible slopers, but I'd still reach somewhere. Should I put that into my 4x4s ?

SCC says 4x4 should be made up of routes that are just slightly beyond my max. onsight ability. Well, that is V3, since the max. grade I've ever flashed is V2. But 4x4 with V3s and V2s definitely feels a bit easy. What should I do?

lena_chita wrote:
agnivsen wrote:
lena_chita wrote:
agnivsen wrote:
Thanks for the comment. But look at this:


...you talking about this book? Seriously a $1000 book, eh? Unsure OK, it figures high on my bucket list.

Meanwhile, I had been mugging up "Self-Coached Climber: The Guide to Movement, Training, Performance".

While Rock Climber's Training Manual is an awesome book that I have and use for training (and no, it certainly does not cost $1000), I don't think it is quite applicable to your situation yet. The book is a periodization training plan that puts training strength, power, power-endurance, endurance, and performance into a bigger picture of how to plan not just one workout, but an entire season.

BUT... IMO it is aimed at people who have a solid base of technique and climbing experience, and climb at a bit higher difficulty than you currently do. It is not a book that discusses movement training, and it assumes that you already know what ARCing is, and 4x4s, etc. and don't need help figuring out how to do it.
It sounds like you have barely a year of regimented climbing under your belt. It is much more likely at this stage that you will see more results from working on your technique, stamina and endurance, than you would from hangboard training.

Anecdotal experience of couple people I know who climb at ~5.10-5.11 range suggests that they were not really seeing much in terms of results after attempting to follow the Rockprodigy plan. It was frustrating to them because they couldn't even pick 6-7 different holds on the hangboard that they could hang on, even with subtraction of ~60 lb. And they couldn't campus even on jugs, let alone campus rungs.

My suggestions for you:

1) scale back to 3-4 climbing sessions per week (that includes outside and inside). Bouldering consecutive days at your top effort is really hard, and all those minor nagging and recurring injuries are your body's way of telling you to slow down.

2) Sounds like you already got Self-Coached Climber book. Have you done self-assessment? There are very helpful tables in the book that break down "you want to climb 5.11c/d" (or other grades) into "you should be able to send V3-V4 after working on it, you should be able to flash V0-V1, you should be able to do ARC at a certain level, do stamina laps at a certain level, etc." It is really helpful because you can immediately see where your weaknesses are, as in, "O.K., I can boulder V3, but i can't do ARC on even 5.9, I should work on that"

3) make sure you structure your gym sessions. Again, SCC has sample suggested plans, for different levels. The gist of it is that you need to make sure you warm up well, and mix up working on maximal level on problems that you can't do yet with working on sub-maximal levels, on problems you can already do, where your goal should be to climb them "perfectly", with as little effort as possible, with good form and technique. There are many movement drills described in SCC, practice them.

Thanks for the analysis. Much appreciated.

I do know a bit about 4x4s and 6x8s. I make it a point to do them once a week. I try to follow the V2 V2 V1 V0 routine for 4x4s and mostly V1s, V0s and Vb- for 6x8s. I do ARC for 45 mins or more, once a week, on 10-15 degree overhang.
And I can manage campus on jug holds.

I have been trying to follow the SCC regimen for the last few months now, to the best of my understanding. Going through your comments and from what Gravitron5000 said, I've figured hangboarding is a bit too much for me at this stage.

I'll avoid that. And campussing too.

I'm trying to improve my technique as much as I can. SCC is a real gem of a training manual.

Yes, SCC is a very helpful book.

In terms of doing 4x4s, I think doing them once a week is not very helpful. This is where the Rock Climbers Training Manual has got things right.

IMO, you should focus on one thing at a time.

For example, make endurance your focus for the next 3-4 weeks. Do longer ARCing at every training session, plan for high volume of easier climbing, and focus on movement drills.

Then switch to power/power-endurance for several weeks, doing it at every session. Warm up (still paying attention to your movement drills during warmup), then work on harder bouldering problems that you can't send yet, again, analyze the moves in terms of what technique you should be applying, where your movement initiation comes from, make small adjustments as you keep trying... and then finish the session with 4x4s (just one set of 4x4, if you feel like you can still climb after doing a 4x4, you need to pick harder problems for it).

It helps if you can pick a goal, and tailor your training to that goal. FOr example, if there is a route you have done in sections, but not put together, try to pick your boulder problems that mimic that route for your 4x4s. If your route has a hard start, then a section of easier climbing, and then another hard section, do the same for your 4x4s. Don't do V2, V1, V0, V0, if your route is more like V1, V0,V0, V2. You might have to start with V2, V1, V1, V0, if that's all you can do, but then switch the problems around after a few sessions when you are getting better. (and you will, if you do them at every session).

But after 3-4 weeks of doing 4x4s at every session, it is time to lay off of them for a period of time, and maybe do stamina laps for a few weeks. And then go back to endurance, and work up to a higher level than in the previous cycle.

And by all means, you should but Rock Climber's Training manual and read it. If it is not applicable now, it would be in a year or so.


Partner camhead


Dec 21, 2014, 8:26 AM
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Re: [agnivsen] Identifying the reason behind under-performance [In reply to]
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That is true that 4x4s should be made up of routes that are just beyond your onsight ability, but another thing to keep in mind is that you should feel complete failure coming on just as you finish the last problem of the set. In other words, on the fourth go, you should just barely be latching the finish hold. If it is feeling too easy, find another problem.

And remember that not all v3's feel the same; one that is your style may be too easy for a 4x4, whereas another might be near impossible.

Think less in terms of numbers, and more in terms of what types of moves or sequences are challenging for you.


(This post was edited by camhead on Dec 21, 2014, 6:45 PM)


squiros


Jan 7, 2015, 10:41 AM
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Re: [agnivsen] Identifying the reason behind under-performance [In reply to]
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to echo what others have said,

don't ignore injuries. you should rehab them. if it's severe, you should use rice: don't rest, don't ice, don't compress, don't elevate. all of these things reduce inflammation which will inhibit tissue regeneration. compression especially can cause compartment syndrome. ice will inhibit immunoglobin I, which is the primary tissue repair factor. elevation will decrease circulation, which the immunglobin need to actively repair. and of course, don't rest. you should rehab as much as you can physically endure. rehabilitation is stressing the damage tendon slowly and in a controlled way to rebuild it.

The PRICE study (Protection Rest Ice Compression Elevation): design of a randomised controlled trial comparing standard versus cryokinetic ice applications in the management of acute ankle sprain [ISRCTN13903946]

Macrophages recruited via CCR2 produce insulin-like growth factor-1 to repair acute skeletal muscle injury

i will second delaying hangboard until v5..v6 at earliest. or 6 months, whichever comes latest.

i have no scientific basis for rehab. anecdotally, i've managed to cure golf/tennis elbow in 5/5 people that have tried my method, however. it has also worked for finger injuries. this method should only be attempted after there is no pain at rest. try to hang a weight from your non injured finger. note the angle and weight. do it with your injured finger at a weight fraction that causes pain you can tolerate. change angles. this is really the secret here. you'll find that most angles will cause a dull throb. one angle, however, should cause a huge spiking pain. as you approach this angle, the pain should increase. this is, of course, the cause of the throb that recurs. train this angle with increasing weight over time. this angle represents isolating the specific ligament. since it's never directly stressed, it simply causes pain when stressed and never strengthens adequately. by isolating it for strengthening, it's possible to permanently eliminate the throbbing pain associated. obviously, if you rip your tendons out of your hand, a stranger on the internet isn't going to cover your medical expenses.


djh860


May 1, 2015, 7:50 AM
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Re: [agnivsen] Identifying the reason behind under-performance [In reply to]
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You have 2 problems
1 your are weak
2 you are injured

solution is cross training this means days off from climbing to work on getting stronger. I suggest you work on core and upper body. Sit ups, crunches , planks ect and pullups curls and one armed rows and dips. Do this 2x a week for 3 months. As soon as you get to 10 pullups start adding weight to your climbing belt. See if you can get to 10 pull ups with 25 lbs on your belt. Honestly its not hard. Do the same thing with your dips. add weight once you get to ten reps.


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