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sonso45
Jan 7, 2015, 12:52 AM
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Two men died in separate rappelling incidents last week in Mexico's limestone playground, El Potrero Chico.
The first was a German climber on Time Wave Zero that rappelled off the end of his 80m rope. One end had been cut and the rope had uneven ends when the rappel failed. On the way down, he struck another climber but he was uninjured.
Second climber was a visitor from Arkansas that also died from a rappel that failed. He was descending Estrellitas when it happened.
Please be mindful of your rappel set up. If you are unsure at all, use knots at the ends of your rope; just be sure to untie them prior to pulling the rope.
May both RIP.
(This post was edited by sonso45 on Jan 7, 2015, 12:53 AM)
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sungam
Jan 7, 2015, 8:58 AM
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sonso45 wrote: Second climber was a visitor from Arkansas that also died from a rappel that failed. He was descending Estrellitas when it happened.
Sad news either way :(
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sonso45
Jan 7, 2015, 1:22 PM
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The anchor was ok; they both rappelled off the ends of the rope. A day apart.
I'm not a fan of knots but I would recommend them to anyone that doesn't do a lot rappelling. I do not use knots but I am constantly checking and rechecking. I also use an auto back up knot when doing long rappels or I am not sure of my landing.
Use knots to be ultra safe.
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Dirteater
Jan 8, 2015, 2:25 PM
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sonso45 wrote: The anchor was ok; they both rappelled off the ends of the rope. A day apart. I'm not a fan of knots but I would recommend them to anyone that doesn't do a lot rappelling. I do not use knots but I am constantly checking and rechecking. I also use an auto back up knot when doing long rappels or I am not sure of my landing. Use knots to be ultra safe.
It's called closing the system and your never skilled or experienced enough not to close the system. Arrogance and ignorance kills.
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sonso45
Jan 8, 2015, 3:12 PM
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Nice first post dirteater. I'm not ignorant nor arrogant IMO. Are you religious cause you sound like a fundamentalist: do it my way or you die. Sorry but there is more than one way to do anything.
Telling folks there is only one way is plain wrong.
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jmeizis
Jan 8, 2015, 5:28 PM
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http://www.climbing.com/...otrero-chico-mexico/
I wouldn't necessarily call a party involving a French guide and simul-climbing 5.12 ignorant. At that level complacency and fatigue are more likely contributing factors. I think complacency amongst those of us who spend the majority of their time in the mountains is pretty common (it's where heuristics of familiarity and the expert halo come from). There are a lot of times it's a good idea to close the system. This would of certainly saved the climbers life, but constant vigilance is draining if you spend almost every second of every day either in the mountains or preparing for the mountains.
When someone says you should always close the system it suggests they have most of their experience in a low committment environment. If you take that dogmatism to big walls or big peaks you're very likely to learn that climbing systems have lots of variables and always or never are concepts that should be removed from your vocabulary in big terrain. If you're lucky you'll only have to spend a few miserable nights out to learn it.
We were in the area when it happened. There was also a third minor accident with a leader breaking their ankle at the Mota Wall. A pretty bad day for the Potrero unfortunately.
For some reason I thought there was a trained rescue group in El Potrero but from what I saw it seemed like the fire department and a couple well meaning people.
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sonso45
Jan 9, 2015, 4:34 PM
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The first option mentioned works especially well in Cochise Stronghold when the winds are roaring. Before we figured out that lowering the first person would work best, we would rap in the wind with the rope directly out 90 degrees for the length of the rope. Put knots in that and good luck pulling your rope through the belay device.
I have used knots when I thought it best in my judgement. There are many different ways to get a thing done right in climbing and just as many to make a fatal error.
Absolutism does not work in climbing, only religion.
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camhead
Jan 12, 2015, 1:44 PM
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jmeizis wrote: I wouldn't necessarily call a party involving a French guide and simul-climbing 5.12 ignorant.
FWIW, there are maybe one or two moves of 5.12 on that entire route, and 99% of climbers just pull through them on bolts that were placed for that reason. The majority of Timewave Zero is easy 5.10-.
That said, I agree that the party was not "ignorant." As I kind of laid out in this article, I think that it is very easy to get lured into a false sense of complacency at Potrero because of its easy-access, 100% bolted routes, and then forget that it is still a very big, serious place.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/..._Dangerous_1605.html
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jacques
Feb 7, 2015, 9:09 PM
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As they said in the news. it is a sport climbing accident with two very strong climber.
As they where in a sport route, and that I analyze trad climbing accident I can't say any things.
I just state that it is sport climbing accident and, if you make the distinction between those who learned sport at the beginning and those who learned trad at the beginning, you will see a bigger incidence of accident by those who do sport...particularly when they do technique very close to trad climbing.
Just make the distinction
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rocknice2
Feb 8, 2015, 10:59 PM
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jacques wrote: As they said in the news. it is a sport climbing accident with two very strong climber. As they where in a sport route, and that I analyze trad climbing accident I can't say any things. I just state that it is sport climbing accident and, if you make the distinction between those who learned sport at the beginning and those who learned trad at the beginning, you will see a bigger incidence of accident by those who do sport...particularly when they do technique very close to trad climbing. Just make the distinction
That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
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