|
Toast_in_the_Machine
Nov 11, 2015, 4:43 PM
Post #76 of 238
(24875 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 12, 2008
Posts: 5208
|
"lively"
Interesting word choice.
|
|
|
|
|
majid_sabet
Nov 11, 2015, 6:38 PM
Post #77 of 238
(24866 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 13, 2002
Posts: 8390
|
we are either older now or wiser or none of the above
|
|
|
|
|
theguy
Nov 11, 2015, 7:50 PM
Post #78 of 238
(24858 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 14, 2004
Posts: 469
|
majid_sabet wrote: we are either older now or wiser or none of the above
So "all of the above" is right out of the question then? And more importantly, would you bet a daisy-chained core-strand rappel on it? ;)
|
|
|
|
|
majid_sabet
Nov 11, 2015, 10:34 PM
Post #79 of 238
(24852 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 13, 2002
Posts: 8390
|
I was worried about you
|
|
|
|
|
tisar
Nov 12, 2015, 3:59 PM
Post #80 of 238
(24823 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 1, 2004
Posts: 2577
|
Couldn't believe I missed so little in the last year(s). Just drove by by accident.
Good to see that some of the fellow posters are still alive - so much more than this forum...
Cheers across the big blue bath tub from an aging Eurofreak. Haven't seen much of the bunch in the last five or so years but I know that at least some of them are still in the business.
So just a friendly "Berg Frei" from me and have a nice one!
|
|
|
|
|
curt
Nov 17, 2015, 6:36 AM
Post #81 of 238
(24714 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2002
Posts: 18275
|
marc801 wrote: sungam wrote: I know this because the mods told me, and clearly they know how to keep a website alive. Obviously they and the site owner are taking lessons from the gunks.com site owner.
Curt
|
|
|
|
|
Toast_in_the_Machine
Nov 23, 2015, 6:26 PM
Post #82 of 238
(24593 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 12, 2008
Posts: 5208
|
As I make a life shift (job related), I am given to thinking more about branding and success of companies. Economically we are used to thinking of zero sum games where one person’s loss is exactly another person’s gain or non-zero sum games where cooperation and competition are possible. Companies aren’t, however, participating in a game where the parties are equally time bound. “Over working” is possible in both the general sense of participating in an activity more and in how I will use it which includes continuous improvement.
Climbing better than a peer is a great example of “over working” as I will use it. The person who trains better and more often will become a better climber. Sure there are other factors that influence the outcome, but at the core more and better practice makes a better climber. Part of the challenge is in the definition of a peer set. If I choose my peer set as middle aged people who live in the flatlands, I’m a fantastic climber because I am one of the few in this situation who climb and I have over worked them at climbing. If I chose the peer set as people who have climbed as long as I have, I am an average to below average climber. Most people who have climbed as long as I have have over worked me in climbing.
Success for a company is about over working. For many startups it involves a compressed timeline to stake out a market position prior to any competition. The over working is facilitated by sharing the risk (stock options) and encouraging a culture where the per-hour wage rate is suppressed due to this shared risk. Family/ethnic restaurants work because there is additional labor (kids, cousins, parents) that is willing to work for little or no money and help over work their peers. Vanity companies started by extremely wealthy individuals have an over work advantage of capital that allows for spending money that peers just don’t have. Once, however, a position is established in the marketplace, over working becomes a difficult proposition. Large investment banks try to create a culture of over working, but since most of their business is already in existing markets, the culture creates a byproduct of illegal activities. You simply can’t over work once a stable state is achieved.
Companies try to shift back to an over work mentality on a regular basis. Corporate restructuring measures which are an effort to over work compared to the other companies in the market. By reducing headcount, there is an inherent short term burst of over working by the remaining employees. However, because the company itself is already in an established market, the gains will always be temporary. The increased wealth created is real, but no one and no organization can exist in an over working state forever.
New ownership is often a way to get into a new over working environment. A new owner will often come in and over work the prior ownership dedicating more time, money and effort to re-vitalize an existing company than the prior ownership did. That was the collective thought about this site when it was sold the last time. That a new owner would come in and over work the situation (better user interface, dedicated time to photos, cleaning up the route DB, etc. ect. ect.) As we have seen, we have instead a manage-for-cash environment. From a business standpoint, this is an acceptable place to be. It is, however, as can be clearly seen here, a form of dying.
Now dying can take a long time or a short time and it is inevitable. If a company isn’t over working and isn’t growing, it is dying. Facebook is dying, it may take years or it may take decades, but it isn’t over working for growth, it is dying. Facebook will generate lots of cash until it dies. Google (Alphabet) is dying despite trying to be continually innovative. Microsoft – dying. This list goes on and on. Some of the dying companies are managed to generate more cash than others, but in the end, if you aren’t growing you are dying. Warren Buffet makes very good money on dying. The companies he buys are all dying. He just is fantastic at calculating how much cash they will generate vs. how much they could be bought for. This type of analysis is only possible on dying companies. Look even at the name of his company, Berkshire-Hathaway. It is the name of two now dead companies.
New owners can over work and create growth. Re-orgs can temporarily create over work and growth. Expanding into new markets can create growth. Doing nothing does not create growth. And that is why this place is in the state that it is. With no over working, no growth, and no change, death is the inevitable result.
|
|
|
|
|
happiegrrrl
Nov 26, 2015, 12:08 AM
Post #83 of 238
(24484 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 4660
|
When there are ten poster repeatedly putting up asshat comments and jacking threads for sport, it may look like liveliness(especially to the asshats!) but the less excitable bread and butter users may or may not be enjoying the show.
The thing is, regular users don't have access to the stats the site is pulling. The ones who can see the traffic patterns and see the navigation of users within the platform, they are in a position to know if asshattery is good or bad for a site.
|
|
|
|
|
happiegrrrl
Nov 26, 2015, 2:01 PM
Post #85 of 238
(24453 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 4660
|
The forums were dead in the waters when Jeff bought the site.
If you don't want to see what happened here, take a look at Supertopo, where posters have been *enjoying* the asshattery the whole time. Many of the best climbers in recent history used to post regularly there and one by one they began to leave because the nastiness and other BS made them wonder why people had to act that way. They stated it outright. Nowadays you have about 10 people who create drama and stupidity in most every thread. There is still some quality of life in the site, but the top posts are filled with vileness, ignorance and idiocy; from the same few posters running rampant.
Anyway - Happy Thanksgiving Day to those in US and Happy Just Today for those others. Today I am going to take a look at the Blowing Rock bouldering area in NC. And then have my 2nd Annual Cracker Barrel T/G Day meal.
|
|
|
|
|
roninthorne
Nov 26, 2015, 8:42 PM
Post #86 of 238
(24438 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 27, 2002
Posts: 659
|
happiegrrrl wrote: The forums were dead in the waters when Jeff bought the site. If you don't want to see what happened here, take a look at Supertopo, where posters have been *enjoying* the asshattery the whole time. Many of the best climbers in recent history used to post regularly there and one by one they began to leave because the nastiness and other BS made them wonder why people had to act that way.
Which is ironic, since it was, as often as not, 'some of the best climbers in modern history' who were creating a good bit of the BS and wearing the asshats.
People stop to look at train wrecks and suicides.... and there is always another new train wreck or suicide just down the information superhighway.
Controlling who talks about climbing and how is as impossible as controlling who climbs... but a special breed believes that someday somehow, they will figure out how to do all three.
That's human nature; breaking the rules and challenging the impossible.
Sounds a lot like climbing, doesn't it?
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Nov 27, 2015, 7:55 PM
Post #87 of 238
(24390 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
There is a very large difference between toxicity and threads following a natural progression to casual discussion.
I never said it was Jeff that did it, either. I wasn't referring to his "no nasty language" kinda-rule that came in.
|
|
|
|
|
happiegrrrl
Nov 28, 2015, 1:37 AM
Post #88 of 238
(24370 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 4660
|
So then, about when was it that "not allowing derailing/asshattery" was instituted at this site?
As for toxicity, I suppose it depends on one's level of taste. Trailer trash types think Corelleware is "fine china," after all. But seems to me that there has been plenty of vile and toxic banter on this thread....back before derailing and asshattery was frowned upon, at least.
|
|
|
|
|
6pacfershur
Nov 30, 2015, 2:48 AM
Post #89 of 238
(24309 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 23, 2010
Posts: 254
|
happiegrrrl wrote: ........Trailer trash types think Corelleware is "fine china," ........
have you been a judgmental ass all your life or did it slowly develop as you got older?
|
|
|
|
|
happiegrrrl
Nov 30, 2015, 1:15 PM
Post #90 of 238
(24291 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 4660
|
I guess you are a fan of Correlleware then.
|
|
|
|
|
Rokjox
Nov 30, 2015, 5:01 PM
Post #91 of 238
(24279 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2006
Posts: 71
|
Happi, the only "regular users" (in which you are not included) who do not have access to the website stats on users is the ones who are without-a-clue. Alexa and a dozen other sites provide extensive analitics on EVERY major website..
http://www.alexa.com/
I wouldn't want to make it TOO easy for you, but explore that site and you will find a dozen solid statistics, all nicely graphed. Supertopo is one of the most stricken that is still alive. They used to have a posistion solidly in the 20,000 range, now they have fallen off the entire graph, alexa no longer publishes their complete states because Supertopo doesn't even make the top 100,000, if you can call that "top". THIS SITE has FAR better attendance than ST does, even NOW. As a "dead site" NOBODY is watching ST anymore, not in the numbers they were when I was posting there. Not for the last TWO YEARS (and more) have they even put a blip in the charts. COMPLETELY BLANK and forgotten. And it took them a WHILE to fall that far because of averaging errors. ST is now all about the "gear reviews" that never have a bad word to say about ANYKIND of junk or crap that is ever sold to anybody. Look at the front page anytime, even though nobody bumps a gear review much, they are always on the front page. Because nobody else is posting enough to move them down.
HA-ha-ha!
The guys you hate (and who hated you) WERE the top climbers. They ARE gone now, and it had nothing much to do with the battles they engaged in with each other, it has to do with how much fun the website and the posters were. And are NOT now.
Supertopo and RC are NOT FUN ANY MOREZ. The bigmouth self-righteous Christians, like yourself, got EXACTLY what they wanted, the death of anybody who posted ANYTHING they did not like. YOU RUN SUPERTOPO NOW! So what is it you don't like again?
I could still be posting if I chose another username, but I refuse to because I did nothing wrong and will not hide from a pandering bunch of sycophants all yelling in unison about how butthurt they are about people bolder and more thoughtful than yourself "controlling" the forum discussions. So WE badboys are all GONE now. Its YOURS. And who the Hell wants to read what YOU post?
YOU are the cause of the death of forums, you need look no farther than that. Banning people first because they had not enough credentials (like Fattrad and Lois) then because they were not respectful enough (to YOU) or because they talked "rough" became banning people because they had "too many posts". EVERYBODY good has a ban somewhere.
If you ban the most enthusiastic and prolific posters, it gets you exactly where you are now with Supertopo. And THIS site, too. And "Mountains and Stuff", and all the others.
Damn near talking to yourself with only a few people left who can even STAND reading the tripe you post. PLENTY of people have asked for your insipid self to be banned. Lets face it, you are a nobody/non-climber who should have been taken out and shot years ago. You are FAR too lame to ride. No man wants to saddle you even for a joke. You got nothing to say, and all those who DID have stories and sharp opinions are gone now.
So can YOU keep Supertopo afloat? Can YOU find enough people who love or hate your stuff enough to even bother to reply at all? I think not. You are just another hanger on, glorying in what you perceive to be bold and badass climbers hanging onto YOUR every word. But as you have noted, all the badasses turned out to be difficult and annoying people who did not pay you much attention. They insulted you. Wah-wah-wah.
So are you Happi with the "ten guys" who remain posting on that website? You ain't gonna get no strokes from Werner, you know.
Bye-bye Happi. Hope you choke on that Cracker Barrel T-day dinner. Must be lonely being you. I got a 17 lb turkey smoked for 7 hours at a table including my wife, some of my kids and some of my grandkids. Wasn't 17 people like the last time my wife did the meal, but it was pretty good turnout given how many of our kids are out-of-state.
Bye again Not-so-Happigrrrrrrll.
(EDIT: Just checked Alexa again and BOTH this site and Supertopo has fallen off the chart. This site is down 41.5 THOUSAND places this month. Rounding errors eventually work themselves out.
ST is running a 40% bounce rate. That means 40% of the people who hit the site turn away IMMEDIATELY and go somewhere else. And its not because they read some shee, they are reading NOTHING. Just like here, there is nothing TO read.)
MY how fast the end comes once it starts to nose-over. You can say it's still going, you can call it flying, but the landing is cataclysmic.
(This post was edited by Rokjox on Nov 30, 2015, 6:03 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
happiegrrrl
Nov 30, 2015, 5:45 PM
Post #92 of 238
(24271 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 4660
|
Rox - I am aware of Alexa, Quantcast and other sites that provide demographics. That is not the same as being privy to in-house navigation.
|
|
|
|
|
happiegrrrl
Dec 1, 2015, 2:37 PM
Post #94 of 238
(24194 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 4660
|
Funny, I would think the personal attacks on anyone that asked the BET to stop bombing every thread that occurred on the site a few years ago would have been a more apt example of toxicity than my making a general reference that was attached to nobody on this forum.
Myself - I could take it. I am a Taurus after all - bull-headed, stubborn, and a person who will stick to their convictions against any adversary. But there were plenty of people who were abused that simply stopped posting, or left, rather than fight a few bullies and their cheerleading squad.
To be clear - Sungam, I don't think of you as ever having been a caustic person this site. When I think of the things you have posted over the years, I remember a sort of happy go lucky person. That you happen to be one of the few posting on this thread, I just wanted to clarify my comments were not referring you personally.
|
|
|
|
|
brianri
Dec 1, 2015, 4:56 PM
Post #95 of 238
(24184 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 28, 2003
Posts: 126
|
You're right. The dates on the forum threads say it all. Mountain Project has won the battle if there ever even was one.
|
|
|
|
|
curt
Dec 1, 2015, 8:45 PM
Post #96 of 238
(24161 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2002
Posts: 18275
|
brianri wrote: You're right. The dates on the forum threads say it all. Mountain Project has won the battle if there ever even was one.
Actually, most of the communications among RC.com members that used to occur on the forums here have probably moved to Facebook--not MP. MP has never been particularly valued for its forums--more for its routes database and photos.
Curt
|
|
|
|
|
brianri
Dec 1, 2015, 9:06 PM
Post #97 of 238
(24156 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 28, 2003
Posts: 126
|
In reply to: Actually, most of the communications among RC.com members that used to occur on the forums here have probably moved to Facebook--not MP. MP has never been particularly valued for its forums--more for its routes database and photos. Curt
|
|
|
|
|
happiegrrrl
Dec 1, 2015, 11:04 PM
Post #98 of 238
(24141 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 4660
|
I think Curt probably means people just post their climbing stuff on their own FB pages. RCdotcom does have a FB and Twitter page, but even when it was active it was not done with any serious effort.
|
|
|
|
|
blazesod
Dec 2, 2015, 5:56 AM
Post #99 of 238
(24109 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 27, 2002
Posts: 249
|
I enjoyed climbing with you Happiegrrrl (and others). Happy holidays, be safe, and climb on.
Cheers,
-Dave B
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Dec 2, 2015, 6:33 PM
Post #100 of 238
(24268 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
uh, my reply didn't post. That's okay because it gives me the 100 snipe*
tl;dr I am bitter because my favourite internet playground is a ghost town now.
*YES I KNOW
|
|
|
|
|
|
