|
|
|
|
gatorclimber
Jan 16, 2003, 5:43 PM
Post #1 of 85
(4357 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 8, 2002
Posts: 83
|
At my local climbing gym I have noticed all the hard core climbers (guys who have been climbing for a long time) are really into environmental issues. Most if not all of them are vegitarians or even vegans. I even overheard one guy say that he thought milking a cow was like raping it. Having done a variety of individual sports like climbing I would have to say that climbers are by far the most environmentaly aware altheltes that I know of. What is it about climbing that everyone finds contributes to this hyper sensitivity to the environment so much more than other "natual" sports like running or mountain biking? On a similar note... climbers seem to be a lot more spiritual than other similar atheletes. Not so much in the religious sense but in the sanctany of nature and the spritiual fullfillment of athelticism. Again, this is something which is not found in any other individual sport that I can think of even the more "natural" ones. The closest I can think of are runners. Why does everyone think that climbing nurtures this type of behavior? Do people generally find this attitude to be true of climbers? If you find yourself to be this way what do you think influences this?
p.s.
You might want to read of some of the responses to the "Why do you climb" thread before answering.
[ This Message was edited by: gatorclimber on 2003-01-16 09:48 ]
|
|
|
|
|
newland
Jan 16, 2003, 6:43 PM
Post #2 of 85
(4357 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 26, 2002
Posts: 44
|
Its quite plain. If you love the natural world, you will want to protect it. Part of the passion of climbing for many people is just being in the mountains.
|
|
|
|
|
maiorlive
Jan 16, 2003, 6:49 PM
Post #3 of 85
(4357 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 20, 2002
Posts: 172
|
I haven't noticed the greater than average spirituality of climbers myself, but it seems plausible to me. If climbers are more spiritual than other athletes, my best guess would be it is because we regularly face death.
Actually to be more specific, we wilfully and deliberately pursue death with gleeful abandon. No protests that "I'm very careful" will change the fact that we're being careful because need to be so or we will wilfully, deliberately, and gleefully die. With abandon.
Death is a proven self-reflection generator. Only the most calloused person faces death without giving serious attention to some version of the “what it all means” question. If you face death often, you probably will spend more time and effort justifying it to yourself.
Personally, I have never been one to pass up an opportunity to reflect on life, death, the universe and everything. I was brainwashed at an early age into believing that an unreflective life is not worth living. But I’ve never thought about death the way I have since I realized that climbing had become my passion, my life and very likely my death.
I’m not going to get into it here, but my personal reflections on climbing have led me believe it is good to tread this earth softly. Don’t know if this is spirituality so much as just coming to terms with the end or absence of my own existence. I suppose for many people these are one in the same.
WC
|
|
|
|
|
cedk
Jan 16, 2003, 7:07 PM
Post #4 of 85
(4357 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 31, 2001
Posts: 516
|
Did the guy who compared milking a cow to raping a cow seem to be speaking from experience? Stay away from that guy.
|
|
|
|
|
arron
Jan 16, 2003, 7:47 PM
Post #5 of 85
(4357 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 12, 2002
Posts: 20
|
lol
|
|
|
|
|
curt
Jan 16, 2003, 8:42 PM
Post #6 of 85
(4357 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2002
Posts: 18275
|
Or, if he can't distinguish between milking the cow and raping it, he is milking improperly.
curt
|
|
|
|
|
rideandclimbkid
Jan 16, 2003, 8:48 PM
Post #7 of 85
(4357 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 4, 2002
Posts: 139
|
what the hell is wrong with some people.
I understand that some people feel that eating other animals is bad...BUT THEN WHY THE HELL DO HUMANS HAVE CANIANE TEETH?
come on people. when the hell is the whole world going to wake up and realize that human beings are just animals? yeah sure whatever, some people are gonna flame me and say
"Matt you are ignorant, people are so much smarter and so we should take care of the earth..."
yeah well if people didnt %@#$ the earth up to this point, i dont think it would need SAVING! yeah sure, the human race might be smarter, and far more advanced than any other animal on this planet...but we're still just that. Animals. Always have been, always will be, and animals have basic instincts.
"But matt, part of being more advanced is supressing those instincts and raising ourselves!"
I for one would like to stay more human than not. Being human means being an animal, and animals have basic instincts. take away the instincts, and you are no longer an animal. your sure as hell not a plant, and so if you arent an animal, then you arent ANYTHING, and you dont belong on this planet.
Point in summary, basic instincts are GOOD TO HAVE. they provide us with a means of procreation, they allow us to feel determination, anger, happiness, and the will to live...the will to EAT. Humans have always ate meat, and i'm not about to change the future by excluding this extremely healthy and TASTY dietary supplement from my plate. Vegans really piss me off.
-The Kid
|
|
|
|
|
stormannorman
Jan 16, 2003, 9:06 PM
Post #8 of 85
(4357 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2001
Posts: 77
|
Well, KID.
I must admit I am for the most part a vegan and love to hear how much we piss off the meat eaters. It almost seems like meat eaters get pissed because deep down they feel a little guilt about how and where their food comes from but they don't want to think about it. We vegans remind you of how one can live happily without the inhumane consumption of caged, steriod filled, anti-biotics filled animals.
Kid, go on hating vegans, but we know the real hatred is in yourself and your conscience, or maybe it is your ignorance.
|
|
|
|
|
roadtriipper
Jan 16, 2003, 9:08 PM
Post #9 of 85
(4357 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 22, 2002
Posts: 14
|
maiorlive
I don't know about you but when I am climbing or even thinking about climbing I do not ever think about death. I don't see how you can say that when someone is climbing that they are pursuing death. If you think that climbers are looking at death more then anyone else in this world your dead wrong. There is nothing better then feeling totally in control on a climb and the thought of death never even enters the equation. Now when driving down the highway I think that you actually are pursuing death way more then when your out experiencing everything that nature has to offer while an a rockwall. What is one of the best ways to get in touch with your spiritual side then to be out in nature enjoying its beauty.
|
|
|
|
|
dingus
Jan 16, 2003, 9:18 PM
Post #10 of 85
(4357 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398
|
"I must admit I am for the most part a vegan and love to hear how much we piss off the meat eaters. "
Right on Bro! For my part I LOVE cutting meat farts around my vegan friends! It's one of my basic joys in life frankly. In my experience, true vegans don't have the combustion power to fight back...
And vegans aren't above the sexual exploitation of their food... otherwise, why would we have zuchinni squash? Hmmm?
Rock on my sisters and brothers!
DMT
|
|
|
|
|
styndall
Jan 16, 2003, 9:21 PM
Post #11 of 85
(4357 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 29, 2002
Posts: 2741
|
" Humans have always ate meat, and i'm not about to change the future by excluding this extremely healthy and TASTY dietary supplement from my plate. Vegans really piss me off. "
Humans probably have always eaten meat. It's the natural thing to do.
That said, the way in which people eat meat in america today is about as far from natural as you get. We might have an instinct to hunt and kill and eat, but you're going to have a hard time convincing anyone that humans have a natural instinct to put created animals (what? you thought cows were natural?) into factory farms, pump them full of anti-biotics and weird chemicals, then eat a McDonald's hamburger, wherein the meat has been dead for on the order of a year.
I don't love cows - note this. Cows are unnatural creatures, and terrible for the environment, both in crap runoff into river ecosystems and in the insane quantities of methane they produce. If all the cows on earth were wiped out tomorrow, the planet would be a bunch healthier.
The closest thing to a natural cow, by the way, is the modern wildebeest, of Africa. Some people hunt those, and it's as it should be.
|
|
|
|
|
gypsy
Jan 16, 2003, 9:30 PM
Post #12 of 85
(4357 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 25, 2002
Posts: 59
|
I haven't particularly noticed that climbers are more "spiritual"...they (we) often seem to be more earthy, but I personally don't know many who focus on the spiritual side of it, they often just enjoy the challenge and being outdoors
...on the vegetarian vs. meat eating...it is pretty much cruel how animals are treated today...also, as far as the canine teeth thing goes, it was very hard to live a healthy vegetarian lifestyle until this century, so meat eating was necessary for existence, but now that it is possible, a vegetarian lifestyle is simply healthier (I have a hard time sticking to a strict vegetarian lifestyle, but I try for these reasons).
|
|
|
|
|
saltspringer
Jan 16, 2003, 9:43 PM
Post #13 of 85
(4357 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 12, 2001
Posts: 274
|
facing death & climbing don't equate: I face death more regularly each time I get into my car and drive...climbing is infinitely safer than any highway in the world where many, many other people have your life in their hands. I think that the spiritual side of climbing can be attributed to the inevitable respect that you develop while spending time on the rock out in nature. We get a unique perspective on the world and it's fragile nature by gaining higher ground that's inaccessible to most people (Greenpeace movement really got going when the astronauts brought back photos of Earth from space). When you spend so much time adjusting your view of the environment and being in touch with it there's a sort of osmosis effect that occurs: spirituality through direct experience of the energy of the natural environment. It's less cluttered up on a rock face so you've got more head space to wrap around the nature of reality...eat what you like but make sure it's free-range or organic: hormones and GMO foods suck!
|
|
|
|
|
moeman
Jan 16, 2003, 9:43 PM
Post #14 of 85
(4357 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 1, 2002
Posts: 1417
|
Every time I eat lamb (Its been a couple months), I tell myself (and my sort of vegetarian sister, ie she eats meat for the protein but tries not to think of where it came from). Now where was I? Oh yeah, I say to myself that what I am about to eat is like bambi, only fluffier. Somehow it makes the meal even tastier and more staisfying.
|
|
|
|
|
aarong
Jan 16, 2003, 10:11 PM
Post #15 of 85
(4357 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2002
Posts: 180
|
As far as recognizing an elvevated environmental and spirtual consciouness in climbers - I agree. I think the fact that we see the world from a different perspective - literally - leads us to a unique "consciousness." Personally, I think my love of the outdoors and nature is what spawned my climbing lifestyle. Now the two are simply combined. Likewise, it's this same self-consciousness that makes issues like diet and exercise important to us. But I think, the whole vegetarian vs. carnivore/omnivore issue is a little overdone. Everyone has various reasons for eating a certain way - and there are pros and cons to each lifestyle.
|
|
|
|
|
alpnclmbr1
Jan 16, 2003, 10:39 PM
Post #16 of 85
(4357 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 10, 2002
Posts: 3060
|
climbing for a long time is a relative term.
The old school climbers to me were all meat eaters. You think people are hecklers on this site, it's nothing compared to the really old school at the crags.
In my experience vegetarianism first started becoming popular about the same time that sport climbing was becoming more popular. It was mostly an issue of losing weight. Many of those people were not that healthy, people did not know how to be a healthy vegetarian yet. Now that people are more aware of what goes on in our food supply system they choose to make different choices. I cant say that I blame them.
Environmental awareness has always been there, but people wouldnt talk about it, they would just do it.
A lot of the new age guru types come of as being a little bit pompous, but they are basically good people. The biggest difference in them is that they make their own choices instead of relying on the norms of society. The same kind of thing that draws people to climbing in the first place. I would agree about the points that some people make about meateaters feeling threatened. But when I see it coming from the other side, I think that is even more hypocritical.
And I totally agree with the influence that the natural beauty of the outdoors can have on your soul.
Climb on
|
|
|
|
|
ktwo
Jan 16, 2003, 10:57 PM
Post #17 of 85
(4357 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 10, 2002
Posts: 443
|
Is it possible that this guy meant that milking a male cow was like raping it? Cause that might make sense.
|
|
|
|
|
cedk
Jan 16, 2003, 10:59 PM
Post #18 of 85
(4357 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 31, 2001
Posts: 516
|
Styndall:
For a guy who doesn't like cows much you sure do spread a lot of bull$#!&.
Cattle are as natural as any animal.
[ This Message was edited by: cedk on 2003-01-16 15:04 ]
|
|
|
|
|
ultraorange
Jan 17, 2003, 12:49 AM
Post #19 of 85
(4357 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 19, 2002
Posts: 42
|
I do think that alot of the older climbers, do care alot about the encironment, which is good, and also agree with the spirtallity (or however you spell it) but do not know any climbers that are are vegitarians or vegans.
~Matt
|
|
|
|
|
climb4life
Jan 17, 2003, 1:16 AM
Post #20 of 85
(4357 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 24, 2002
Posts: 174
|
as far as vegan, vegetarian, meat eaters go, i don't give a $#!&!!
the spirituality of climbing i beleive is bull----!!
there are tons of climbers out there. if they chose to be vegetarian, then so be it. just remember, vegetarian, vegan, or even meateaters, they all are consumptions in which we need to survive. all those three are different ideas and different methods of eating. don't get me wrong, i am a vegetarian most of the time and i do admit it is hard to stay healthy especailly when doing a sport that requires a lot of energy. but i also enjoy eating meat. elk, deer, buffalo, cattle, rabbit, ect ect ect, they are primary consumers for us to feed on. there is no right or wrong, better or worst. they both have cons and pros.
the spiriatuality thing goes, everyone goes along with thier belfiefs which i would like to call "idea of life". whatever makes them happy or feel happier, then so be it.
i am sick of tired of people telling each other what right or wrong becuase i don't see anything right or wrong with this topic.
when i climb, i climb for myself. not to feel more spirtiual or enviromentalist or whatever. just to climb. for me and me only. you can throw in all kind of bull---- about spirituality or enviromentalist or whatever, just remember, climbing is a sport that allows us to enjoy ourself and push ourself to the limit becuase we enjoy it.
climb on
|
|
|
|
|
drector
Jan 17, 2003, 1:23 AM
Post #21 of 85
(4357 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2002
Posts: 1037
|
Climbing seems to be close to the environment. Much more so than football. Even golf is a game played on a damaged environment. Climbing involves the most natural environment possible (except when those stupid chippers act) compared to the other activites I can think of.
I don't know if there is a connection with climbing and being a vegatarian, because for me, climbing brings out some natural instincts and a bit of animal nature in me. I accept that I have pointy teeth and a digestive system designed for eating meat (and veggies). The same animal nature that makes me enjoy climbing makes me eat meat.
Dave
PS, I do not condemn nor care that others choose to not eat meat. That is perfectly acceptable. Seeking the humane treatment of animals is also a fine endeavor.
|
|
|
|
|
flying_dutchman
Jan 17, 2003, 1:23 AM
Post #22 of 85
(4357 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 20, 2002
Posts: 708
|
hehehe, "save a plant, eat a cow"
P.E.T.A. "people eating tasty animals"
lol
Most of the people here, with the exception of those who live in their VW bugs at the crags, live in houses or apartment buildings that have been built with wood often cut down from old growth forests. Then we all drive carbon-dioxide producing cars to go on roadtrips. Then we go climbing and look in awe at the cliffs and nature and think of the environment and spirtuality and how we all co-exsist in harmony.
gotta love the irony
|
|
|
|
|
climb4life
Jan 17, 2003, 1:27 AM
Post #23 of 85
(4357 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 24, 2002
Posts: 174
|
gotta agree with you flying dutchman
|
|
|
|
|
rideandclimbkid
Jan 17, 2003, 4:19 AM
Post #24 of 85
(4357 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 4, 2002
Posts: 139
|
lmao...i love you guys. but lemme just claify...i eat veggies too. Cattle IS in a way, fake meat
but oh how i DO LOVE a perfectly grilled cheeseburger from a RESPECTABLE burger joint.
glad to hear that some people agree with me!
"save the bull$#!& for the rodeo"
"eat the meek"
and BEEF...ITS WHATS FOR DINNER!
The Kid
|
|
|
|
|
styndall
Jan 17, 2003, 5:00 AM
Post #25 of 85
(4357 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 29, 2002
Posts: 2741
|
For a guy who doesn't like cows much you sure do spread a lot of bull$#!&.
Cattle are as natural as any animal."
No. Cows are about as natural as toy poodles. They wouldn't have evolved without tons of selective breeding (poor man's genetic engineering), and they sure as hell wouldn't survive on their own in the wild. There's no cow-based natural ecosystem anywhere.
Cows are essentially unnatural critters. Stating anything else is disingenious.
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
