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climbhigher


Jan 25, 2003, 9:56 PM
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soloing on toprop
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Does anyone know of any mechanical devices that are good for soloing on top rope (on a fixed rope)??? Maybe from Wren??? I want to work on freeing some pithes up on El Cap. Silent parnter wont work for that unless you anchor the rope at the bottom, maybe. And anything with teeth is not safe, and prussiks are never safe when used to solo. So is there any other ideas out there?? I need Something that will slide up the rope by itself while climbing.

[ This Message was edited by: climbhigher on 2003-01-25 22:29 ]

[ This Message was edited by: climbhigher on 2003-01-25 23:07 ]


ride


Jan 25, 2003, 10:04 PM
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check out this thread
actually wait, that one, is not so good anymore, some one deleted alot of the posts??

I've used the soloist (Just got another one) they work great if you know how to use them.

I have not used the others yet. do a serach, you should find lots of opinions on each.

[ This Message was edited by: ride on 2003-01-25 22:06 ]


twrock


Jan 25, 2003, 10:13 PM
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(Agreed. Lots of threads on this topic. Do a search and check them out. They might save your life.)

Petzl Shunt, Ascension, and Basic will all work.
Wren Soloist and Silent Partner will too.
Don't use something not specifically recommended for that application, read the manual carefully, and always have a backup system (i.e. be tied in somehow).

(Edit- Chris, you keep changing your question, so I'm really not sure what you mean anymore. See below for my follow-up answer.)

[ This Message was edited by: twrock on 2003-01-26 07:13 ]


beyond_gravity


Jan 25, 2003, 10:13 PM
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I use a gri gri.

You tie a figure 8 mid way on your rope and clip it to the anchor. Rap down, hook up the Gri Gri and pull in the slack as you move up. Tie overhand back up knots ever 10 feet or so.

Works great, and if things get too tricky you can just hook up a jug or purssik and move up a little higher.


misha


Jan 25, 2003, 10:59 PM
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ascender all the way. just clip it in and climb, easy as that, no back ups or prussicks nessecary.


climbhigher


Jan 25, 2003, 11:05 PM
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masha, ascender will cut the sheath of the rope. The cam and teeth in the ascender will crush the rope and cut the sheath with a dynamic load.


apollodorus


Jan 25, 2003, 11:26 PM
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If you're soloing on toprope, there isn't going to be much of a dynamic load. Theoretically, if there is no slack in the rope and you freefall onto it, the load is only twice your weight. So, even doubling that means pretty low forces on the solo device. Still, though, you NEED to tie in to the end of the rope, and to some overhands when you reach good stances.


climbhigher


Jan 26, 2003, 12:22 AM
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You would be surprise how much force you apply to the rope even falling one foot especailly when you are near the anchor. Any slack at all and there's a possibility of cuting the sheath of the rope. With a cam that has teeth on it.

[ This Message was edited by: climbhigher on 2003-01-26 00:23 ]


iamthewallress


Jan 26, 2003, 12:25 AM
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Petzl mini-traxion is a good hands free device if you fix the top of your line and weight the bottom.


rogueclimber


Jan 26, 2003, 2:43 AM
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Chris,
It sounds like your thinking, so I thought a little too.
If you have ever soloed with a gri-gri then you know that when you are half to two thirds up the length of the rope it starts to feed itself through the gri due to the weight of the rope that is dangling on the 'feeding out' side of your gri, right?
It seems to me that if you want to work a pitch solo you could weight the lower end of the fixed line with, pitons, pack, etc.
You'll have to use proper weights so as not to bind your gri nearing the crux. Be creative. The rope length, diameter, steepness, and condition of your gri will all be factors.
Also you probibly know that this is not a recomended use of a gri-gri however, it is not an uncommen practice to use this device for soloing. ALWAYS BACK YOURSELF UP!
I hope this has helped. Good question!
GOOD LUCK MATE!!!
Gabe


duskerhu


Jan 26, 2003, 3:36 AM
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This sounds like a question for Pete!

Oh PTPP, where are you???

oh,well, its kinda early, I spose he's sleeping...


tonygrieb


Jan 26, 2003, 6:59 AM
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Why is a top roping question posted in the aid climbing forum?


twrock


Jan 26, 2003, 7:37 AM
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Chris, it isn't the teeth that are the major cause for concern. It is the failure of the "toothed-cam" to engage unless it is actively pushed onto the rope (that's the major concern with a Tibloc). If the cam fails to engage, then yes, you might shread your rope. So with the Basic and Ascension, there is a spring that engages the cam onto the rope. You can actually look at the manual for the Basic and Ascension on the Petzl website and you will see how it is being used for solo toproping (climbing the rock while being protected by the device sliding up the fixed rope).

However, if the teeth still bother you, you can use any of the other devices I mentioned (Shunt, Soloist, Silent Partner). In the case of the Soloist or Silent Partner, both devices are designed for lead soloing, and as such, exceed the margin of safety you need for toprope soloing significantly. However, the Soloist will not hold an inverted fall. The Shunt has a limitation documented in the manual (overhanging rock) and will actually begin slipping if the force exceeds a certain level (which I forget). In this case, slipping is a good thing.

I know you will hear differently from people who have even climbed a very long time without a backup system that you don't need a backup with what they are using. I don't agree. Personally I like the method documented in the SP manual; have a second line in which you have pre-tied loops for clipping in; clip in each time you get to the next higher one. It's kind of like stopping to place gear or clip a bolt.


curt


Jan 26, 2003, 8:38 AM
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I don't TR solo too often but, in the past, I used a Gibbs ascender for TR soloing and it worked fine. I now use the Petzl mini-traxion, and it also works fine. It is designed for this, so the comments about shredding your rope may be a little off base. I have never seen any damage to my rope's sheath from the device.

Curt


misha


Jan 26, 2003, 9:06 AM
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with a tight rope and the ascender tied off really close to you're harness, when you fall all you really do is sit back on the rope, never going more than a foot.


flamer


Jan 26, 2003, 9:09 AM
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If you check with petzl you'll find that they rate both the ascension(handled) and basic for toprope soloing. I've used the ascension and it worked well- if you are worried about the fall force affecting the rope then add a screamer- or scream aid to your system and make it more dynamic.
josh

[ This Message was edited by: flamer on 2003-01-26 11:01 ]


spiffdog


Jan 26, 2003, 10:40 AM
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Two options that have not been mentioned that warrant discussing. I use a Wren Solo-Aid for both solo-aid climbing and TR-solo on the rare occasion that I do it. This is not the same device as the Soloist, and it WILL hold an inverted fall. It will self-feed with a small weight on the end of the rope, and does not have teeth. Best of all, it attaches to your harness via a sling, rather than a biner which will inevitably crossload. I highly recommend it for both applications mentioned above.

The other option worth exploring is an Ushba Basic. It's an ascender that has no teeth. I've heard it works well for TR-solo, but I haven't used it myself. Good luck.

Spiff

Solo-Aid: http://www.barrabes.com/barrabes/images/products/L_ROEDESSOL0SOLOA00A.jpg

[ This Message was edited by: spiffdog on 2003-01-26 10:43 ]

[ This Message was edited by: spiffdog on 2003-01-26 10:44 ]


aid312


Jan 26, 2003, 11:03 AM
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I just got the yates rocker. I will let you know how it is after I try it out. It looks great though.


climbhigher


Jan 26, 2003, 11:40 AM
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Thanks everyone. I looked at the ushba
basic ascender, and It looks like this is what i am looking for. It does'nt have teeth on the cam and, It was acctually design for top rope soloing. I was not really worried about the teeth shredding the rope as much as the cam smashing the rope. The cam in a normal ascender is very small in diameter, so it's not really met to take a dynamic fall onto the rope. With a bigger camming device there's not as much force applyed to the rope. I guess, the minute you decide to climb alone , you are sacrificing some degree of safety.


mojorisin


Jan 26, 2003, 1:16 PM
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The gri gri and the shunt both work in that deal but you have to be careful on roofs with the shunt and dont let the rope get twisted around the lever of a gri gri.


enigma


Jan 27, 2003, 12:41 AM
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Ride-I'll belay you anytime you want,just ask. There's no risk of all those mechanical devices either.But silent; that's tough.


freeclmr


Jan 27, 2003, 1:42 AM
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climbhigher,
I use the Ushba ascender when I freeclimb solo on a toprope and it is awesome. It doesn't damage the rope, smoothly ascends the rope as I climb and has caught me everytime even during dynos. However, this device cannot be reversed..the only way to go is up even when you are in over your head. I have finished a few climbs hand-over-hand up the rope.....
Brian


cabouldering


Jan 27, 2003, 4:30 AM
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Kevin Thaw showed me how he rope solos with a gri-gri.
When rope soloing with a gri-gri you should always tie off excessive rope through the device with a figure-8 on a bite. If the gri-gri fails or is held open on a fall, this knot will catch you. Then, to climb with only 3 points on the rock (technical soloing), you hike up the excess rope into your teeth like you are performing a clip, and then with the gri-gri unweighted of the excess rope, you can pull the extra rope through the device with the same hand. This process is facilitated by wearing a chest harness and drilling the gri-gri and placing a nylon loop of cord through the hole, so that the gri-gri remains stationary in front of you and does not flop around (2-point attachment between the harness and chest harness). It is much easier if you provide rope slack to the gri-gri before you climb up and into a crux before a clip. Be sure to feed out enough so that you are not short-roped on the clip.

Good luck!

CABouldering


redpoint73


Jan 27, 2003, 5:27 AM
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On that note, ALL devices used for soloing (ascenders or otherwise) should be backed up with knots. No mechanical device is absolutely foolproof. Although a clove hitch or Wren Solo-Aid are probably the safest.

If you are just doing short routes (half a rope length) you can tie off the rope at the middle w/figure-8 and clip it to the anchor. As you climb, you can tie overhand-8 knots on the free strand (strand not used for the belay device) and clip them to your harness as you go. This way, even if the device severs the rope (unlikely on TR I know), you are still held by the rope. This is only if you are super over-cautious like me. On your first solo efforts, you very well may be!!!


climbhigher


Jan 28, 2003, 2:08 PM
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Once again thanks!!!!! I am on my way to Zion!!!! FRIDAY!!!!

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