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addiroids
Nov 29, 2001, 1:41 AM
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From the FISH site:
Accessory Cords Strength (approx)
4mm 340 lbs
5mm 530 lbs
6mm 1150 lbs
7mm 1360 lbs
8mm 1650 lbs
9mm 1700 lbs
5.5 Sterling Vectran 3800 lbs knotted
5.5 BD Gemini 3900 lbs knotted
5/16" static 4000
7/16" static 6500
1/2" static 9000
So this supports your opinion that really stupid people use 5mm. I agree. But 6mm is some strong stuff. It has worked for me. But I would rec 7mm for someone else. Get 20-22 feet of it. But get 2 of those because you will have at least 2 stations active at the same time.
TRADitionally yours,
Addiroids
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theooze
Nov 29, 2001, 1:54 AM
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I've always used 6mm perlon. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that John Long recommends 6 in Climbing Anchors. I'm personally comfortable with it.
Having said that, I've seen a lot of criticism of 6mm cordelettes. In a worst case scenario, say a factor 2 fall, with the belay running through the cordelette, and an unequalized load so that only one loop of cord is weighted, you could go way over the breaking strength of 6mm, and possibly even 7mm cord. David Fasulo calls for 7mm in his Self Rescue.
Fasulo suggests using high-strength cord like BW Titan (5.5mm), and many people use that or BD Gemini (5mm). Both are wicked strong and expensive.
Subjectively, I think that the 6mm is plenty tough and, even in the worst case scenario above, you've only lost one loop and anchor. Of course you'll get shock loading of the other anchors etc. etc.
I've been using webolettes more. Have you considered them?
Stu Hammett
WVClimbing.com
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newbieclimber
Nov 29, 2001, 2:03 AM
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the fish website numbers are outdated and now manufacturers generally make cordage that is stronger.
(sane)people who use 5mm cordage for their cordalettes do not use nylon or perlon. they use higher strength cordage made with high tech materials. however plain old 7mm perlon or nylon has tested out better than any other material for a combination of strength, uv degradation, wear and tear, and ease of use.
[ This Message was edited by: newbieclimber on 2001-11-28 18:07 ]
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howieehrlich
Nov 29, 2001, 2:55 AM
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I use the 5.5mm sterling IF i am on a trad climb. I normally climb sport and in that case a daisy chan is plenty, but for trad, Ii have always gone with the 5.5 sterling.
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dustinap
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Nov 29, 2001, 5:53 AM
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Spectra is bad, when it is forced ot bend, over time is can ruin the inside, where as any anti-flexible cord is.
I personally use 8 mil. It's not much more, heavy, or expensive.
Now, when I look at rei.com, mammut 6 mil cord is 8 KN. That is pretty good right? Almost 1,800 lbs, and if it is trippled up? Oh great, that is even better right? Well, figure if it is joined with an eight, that is 15% of the strength taken away.
Mammut 7 mil is almost 11kn, much better 2 grams a foot and .10c a foot right? maybe not.
Now, 8 mil is getting up there, it's almost twice as heavy as 6 mil, but still at 12 grams a foot, does it really matter?
It's almost 16 kn strong, that 8 mil is. I feel comfortable with that when my leader falls below the anchor on a 20 foot runout and I go with him. How about you guys?
Yes, I am really into redundancy and having strong gear, but not enough to carry 2 inch climb spec webbing. So no jokes about that please. The webbing I just refered to is rated at 30KN, BTW.
Now as John Long goes. His book is great, so nothing personal against him. But he has some WHACKED ideas, like making cams out of STEEL and selling them starting at 80 bucks each. WANDER WHY YOU'VE NEVER SEEN THESE THINGS? Only 5.2 lbs a cam.
Lets hope he did put more thought into his books then he did into those cams.
Nah, his anchor book is good, but I can't say that I agree with every issue in it. Just like in Royal Robbins rock craft and advanced rock craft book, truly great books as well, I don't beleive in many of his methods.
One of his methods is soloing with a presik knot. omkashie he's alive even! Those things melt under a few KN don't they? I mean, the cord on a sticht plate can melt when rappeling, I'm sure that a 7 mil presik melts under 4 kn or so fall, right?
Now, this is my personal optionon. I personally love mammut cord, that is why I used them as an example. But this arguement is like who makes the best climbing rope, it'll never be agreed by anyone, or what should you get for beginning gear?
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passthepitonspete
Nov 29, 2001, 6:23 AM
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I have two really big 7mm cordalettes for each anchor. One is made from a 6m hunk, the other a 7m hunk. The 6m hunks are one colour, the 7m hunks another. Both will hook into four pieces no problem.
I also have a web-O-lette that equalizes three pieces, and it really rocks.
I would use 6mm for free climbing as 7mm would be overkill. I believe 8mm would be overkill since I have always used 7mm. I would not use 6mm on a big wall belay owing to the enormous strain I put on the system when hauling all my beer and shower water.
Cheers, Pete
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dustinap
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Nov 29, 2001, 6:33 AM
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Also, don't drink the water from Camp 4, it doesn't taste right!!!
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climb512
Nov 29, 2001, 6:09 PM
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7mm here, id rather err on the safe side.
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andy_lemon
Nov 29, 2001, 6:53 PM
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Dustinap: For someone who has only been climbing for a year you sure as hell are filling up your shoes dissin on John Long.
Quote: Nah, his anchor book is good, but I can't say that I agree with every issue in it.
You don't agree with his books... What? You mean to tell me in the 1 year you have been climbing outdoors you lead with nuts, cams, chocks, etc... so much so that you need to use cordellete to tie anchors together... and to dis John Long you must have tied over 100's of anchors together in the past year right? If that is true you have came further in the first year of climbing than any climber I have ever seen but for some reason I'm having a hard time beleiving it.
Where is the credability?
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passthepitonspete
Nov 29, 2001, 7:38 PM
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Dude,
That water from Camp 4 may taste bad, but DANG, have I ever drunk a lot of it over the years! I have struggled with that stupid tap filling hundreds of water bottles. The absolute worst time was when Chris and Sean were racking for Reticent, and *I* had to fill the bottles. We took a hundred and twenty freaking litres of water with us up that wall! I was there for hours filling the damn bottles.
This, however, was before I learned the
***SECRET YOSEMITE BETA*** for filling water bottles
You can fill them much more easily at the tap outside of the Yosemite Lodge Cafeteria, or if you are staying in Camp 5 with the rest of us who are too cheap to pay, you can fill your water bottles at the tap at the end of the wooden deck in front of the Mountain Shop.
This is ***SECRET YOSEMITE BETA*** for filling water bottles, and is only available to climbers who are "in the know".
SSSSHHHHH!!!!!
Question: where is the credibility?
I would normally write "credability (sic)" if this were the misspelling of a detractor in order to embarrass him, but since this is misspelling of a supporter, I will not point it out.
Answer: over there, in a box. Alongside the ambiguity.
Dustinap:
Here is a golden opportunity to enhance your credibility. You have questioned the technical knowledge of one of the world's great technicians, at least in a few places that have attracted your attention.
I verily believe that John Long's book contains technical errors and obsolete information. Were I to care to read the book, I could probably find some examples.
Dustinap, in order to salvage your credibility, which has been questioned by what you have written, I would ask you to find an example in John Long's book where you disagree.
This is important, I believe. If you do not have a copy of the book handy, I suggest you FIND a copy, and FAST!
I write this to you since you are a supporter of mine. I am tired of people writing things they don't intend to stand behind. Issues of credibility strike me deeply to my heart.
I am absolutely CERTAIN that there are some technical advice in John Long's book that any knowledgeable climber could draw issue to, and I now challenge you to show us.
If you are right, I will agree with you.
If you are not right, I will disagree with you, but respect you for trying and not diss you.
If you ignore the challenge, you ignore at your peril for it is now an issue of your credibility!
Good luck, lad!
Go for it!
You can do it! I know! Anyone smart enough to recognize the World's Greatest Climber in a photo HAS to be able to find some cool stuff in John Long's book that is wrong.
Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-HA!
[Diabolical Dr. Evil laughter]
Oops. My first diabolical smilie guy didn't work. Lemme try another
[ This Message was edited by: passthepitonspete on 2001-11-29 11:40 ]
Frig, he's not very diabolical-looking, is he? Sorry.
[ This Message was edited by: passthepitonspete on 2001-11-29 11:44 ]
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dustinap
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Nov 29, 2001, 8:19 PM
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Since I don't have a copy of the book sitting infront of me right now, I unfortunantly can't tell you some of the obsolete things in this book that I don't agree with.
What I can say is that some of the pictures in his book don't look like real anchors that normal people reading his book would use. Also, I could be uncertain in this, but he says to join the cordalette with an overhand knot?
As well as some of the things he lists later in the book I have NEVER seen, or heard of anyone doing in years, but yet it is a pretty recent book isn't it?
Does he have cylinder nuts in his book?
I wasn't trying to say thatt I personally know more, or am better at anythingthan John Long is, his book is well written, and for newbies without climbing mentors with ooogls of knowledge, his book is wonderfull
Now, as I may have or may not have said in my last post, my feelings are a matter of optionon, okay? They are what I may tell someone in a gear shop asking me questions.
If I was asked if the book was worth buying by some newbie, I would say it's the best book he/she could read.
Everyone has a matter of optionon on what they read and whether they feel it has credible information in it. I would rope solo with a presik, but you may!
This was not intended for as a personal attack in anyone to John Long, but I have to say I don't agree with every single bit of information in his book. Sorry, I don't own a copy of the book and I read it in one night, so I can't quote and give you page #'s.
I'll be back in a few hours to see how much I got flamed off the board. :rolleyes:
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climber1
Nov 29, 2001, 9:59 PM
Post #12 of 26
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7 or 8 mil usually works.
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andy_lemon
Nov 29, 2001, 10:11 PM
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PthePP: Who spells? What? What school am I from? I know how to spell corn and coal... that is all I was taught!
Dustinap: Not flaming you... just making sure you were not the next Dave Graham... climb for 2 years and your poping off 13's.
Andy
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talons05
Nov 29, 2001, 11:27 PM
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I use 7mm. It's a good compromise.
AW
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jumaringjeff
Nov 30, 2001, 12:34 AM
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I've been using 5mm gemini. Just got some Maxim tech cord...looking forward to trying that out...
Happy Jumaring,
jj
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kennoyce
Nov 30, 2001, 12:49 AM
Post #16 of 26
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i personally prefer using a web-o-lette. i find them much easier to use then a cordlette, but i have used 6 mil cording and have also used 5.5 gemini, with cordlettes i prefer the 5.5 gemini.
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mount.everest
May 3, 2012, 10:15 PM
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this is definitely off topic, but I would agree that you should have one copy handy to mark up and "argue" with the author if you want or just make notes in the margins and underline stuff.
I would also like to say that people get stuck into a specific way of doing things and there is oftentimes more than one right answer. I have found a half knot to be an acceptable alternative to a figure 8 for a 7mm nylon cordelette. Also, I think it is never good to put your eggs in the same basket (redundancy is a part of SERENE and a good thing). Use books AND fellow climbers and ask lots of questions about WHY things are done the way they are.
also, you kind of avoided the challenge. find some things you disagree with and point out with page numbers, because I would think more than just you and me and the other person want to look critically at climbing methods etc.
*and to get back on track. the cordelette you use should be different depending on what you do. alpine, probably go with high strength, low wight 5.5 or 6mm cord, although I would use 7mm nylon in most multi-pitch rock conditions. I find 8mm nylon handy and easier to work with in top rope situations, but 11mm static is always a bomber alternative. it depends upon the situation. I like 7mm nylon best for working in the majority of situations.
also, cylinder nuts? like ball nuts? think that is what you must have meant...
anyhow, looks like I just wasted another 10 minutes :)
now get yourself out climbing! and don't assume there is only one right way..
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devkrev
May 3, 2012, 11:54 PM
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mount.everest wrote: this is definitely off topic, but I would agree that you should have one copy handy to mark up and "argue" with the author if you want or just make notes in the margins and underline stuff. I would also like to say that people get stuck into a specific way of doing things and there is oftentimes more than one right answer. I have found a half knot to be an acceptable alternative to a figure 8 for a 7mm nylon cordelette. Also, I think it is never good to put your eggs in the same basket (redundancy is a part of SERENE and a good thing). Use books AND fellow climbers and ask lots of questions about WHY things are done the way they are. also, you kind of avoided the challenge. find some things you disagree with and point out with page numbers, because I would think more than just you and me and the other person want to look critically at climbing methods etc. *and to get back on track. the cordelette you use should be different depending on what you do. alpine, probably go with high strength, low wight 5.5 or 6mm cord, although I would use 7mm nylon in most multi-pitch rock conditions. I find 8mm nylon handy and easier to work with in top rope situations, but 11mm static is always a bomber alternative. it depends upon the situation. I like 7mm nylon best for working in the majority of situations. also, cylinder nuts? like ball nuts? think that is what you must have meant... anyhow, looks like I just wasted another 10 minutes :) now get yourself out climbing! and don't assume there is only one right way..
Welcome to Rc.Com!
Congratulations on posting on a 11 year old thread.
Have a nice day!
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johnwesely
May 4, 2012, 12:52 AM
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This may seriously be a record for longest time between posts.
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mount.everest
May 4, 2012, 12:58 AM
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haha~! thanks!
I found it a nice way to organize my thoughts!
holy buckets do some people argue on these threads. just spent 2 hours perusing webbing vs. static. wow. enough said.
nothing is black and white that is for sure. and if it has worked in the past without incident, then I think it must be tried and true.
have a nice day too!
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ianwatson
May 22, 2012, 6:41 PM
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I use 7mm.
(This post was edited by ianwatson on May 22, 2012, 6:44 PM)
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billcoe_
May 22, 2012, 7:56 PM
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Cordalettes were a phase.
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chris
Aug 21, 2012, 3:42 AM
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From Sterling Rope, www.sterlingrope.com:
2mm 225lbs, 1kN
3mm 472lbs, 2.1kN
4mm 1034lbs, 4.6kN
5mm 1169lbs, 5.2kN
6mm 2135lbs, 9.5kN
6mm 4271lbs, 19kN (Power Cord)
7mm 2788lbs, 12.4kN
Just FYI - Sterling doesn't offer regular 6mm cord, but says on its Power Cord page that its twice as strong as regular 6mm cord. That's reflected above.
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ninepointeight
Aug 21, 2012, 9:58 PM
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chris wrote: From Sterling Rope, www.sterlingrope.com: 2mm 225lbs, 1kN 3mm 472lbs, 2.1kN 4mm 1034lbs, 4.6kN 5mm 1169lbs, 5.2kN 6mm 2135lbs, 9.5kN 6mm 4271lbs, 19kN (Power Cord) 7mm 2788lbs, 12.4kN Just FYI - Sterling doesn't offer regular 6mm cord, but says on its Power Cord page that its twice as strong as regular 6mm cord. That's reflected above.
Yes they do and it's rated 8.9KN.
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