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sspssp
Jan 9, 2003, 4:26 PM
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Quote: (How do you do the auto quote?)
***
Ropes aren't twisty unless they are twisted by poor rope handling. Common rope-twisting blunders include:
Lowering a climber with the rope running over the side of the belay device.
Rappelling with your brake hand at your side instead of in front of you.
Flaking a new rope instead of unwinding it.
***
That helps, but won't prevent twists. I hate twists. I am very carefull unwinding a new rope and belaying and rappelling. And my ropes still get twists (I guess I could always blame my partners ).
Even if the twists are from bad habits, I would still like a rope that resisted them.
I've noticed also that some ropes that I have owned have twisted much faster than others. In particular, I seem to have more problems with the smaller diameter ropes. I am thinking of getting double ropes in the 8.1~8.8 size, since twists with double ropes is a real nightmare, I was wondering if any climbers out there had suggestions for which might be best. Since rope construction is a trade offs between various qualities, I would like one that maximised non-twistiness even if I give up something else.
In particular, I was looking at the Beal 8.1 which is listed as dual use twin or double.
Peace.
[ This Message was edited by: sspssp on 2003-01-09 09:02 ]
[ This Message was edited by: sspssp on 2003-01-09 09:04 ]
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superdiamonddave
Jan 9, 2003, 5:19 PM
Post #27 of 49
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Maxim ropes are all that I buy. I have had many other brands and they were either too expensive or they just didn't meet my needs and expectations.
Blue water ropes are prone to twisting.
PMI ropes are prone to becoming too stiff with heavy use.
All of the ropes will work, but I am definately a Maxim believer.
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rockhugger
Jan 10, 2003, 3:40 AM
Post #28 of 49
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At the area I climb at all ropes twist and this is from the way the anchors are set up.Redwing,Mn.
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sspssp
Jan 10, 2003, 3:58 PM
Post #29 of 49
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Sure, all ropes twist at least some, eventually. But do they all twist equally as fast?
That's like saying all ropes wear out--so durability doesn't matter.
peace.
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crankenstein
Jan 10, 2003, 4:28 PM
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I've probably owned at least 15 ropes over the years. I've found that I like Mammut the best-especially the dry treated ones. The only rope that I never liked was a Maxim. It seemed to twist more than any other brand that I've had. A friend has a new Blue Water that is sweet though.
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sosure
Jan 12, 2003, 4:25 AM
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Re: Rope Twist
I'm no expert, but I've heard other people talk and I'll repeat what I've heard. Someone who care a lot might e-mail a rope manufacturer to verify it.
Rope twist doesn't airse from poor handling, but from the rope's tendency to follow the lay of its core when pulled through a belay device. Said otherwise, any twisted core rope will twist. It used to be that most dynamic ropes were made with braided cores, which reduced the twist, but now it is generally thought that twisted core ropes are substantially more resiliant to climbing falls. (Alternatively, it may be that braided cores are simply more expensive to produce.) So far as I know there are only a few ropes left on the market with braided cores. Mammut makes one of them. (Most mammut rope is twisted core, but one model is braided I believe). I'm not sure who makes the others.
(Not)SoSure
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sosure
Jan 12, 2003, 4:26 AM
Post #32 of 49
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Re: Rope Twist
I'm no expert, but I've heard other people talk and I'll repeat what I've heard. Someone who care a lot might e-mail a rope manufacturer to verify it.
Rope twist doesn't airse from poor handling, but from the rope's tendency to follow the lay of its core when pulled through a belay device. Said otherwise, any twisted core rope will twist. It used to be that most dynamic ropes were made with braided cores, which reduced the twist, but now it is generally thought that twisted core ropes are substantially more resiliant to climbing falls. (Alternatively, it may be that braided cores are simply more expensive to produce.) So far as I know there are only a few ropes left on the market with braided cores. Mammut makes one of them. (Most mammut rope is twisted core, but one model is braided I believe). I'm not sure who makes the others.
(Not)SoSure
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rprp
Jan 12, 2003, 3:39 PM
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Sosure, that must be part of it. The twists in the rope seem to be "spring-like". That is, you can lay the rope out on the ground free of twists, but as soon as you stetch it a bit, it rolls up in kinks.
But the problem with Sosure's idea is that the core of all the ropes I have looked at have four strands--two wound to the left, two wound to the right. So what gives?
Is the twisting coming from something all of us right-handers are doing?
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flamer
Jan 14, 2003, 6:22 AM
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I've said it before and I'll say it again, BLUEWATER ROPES ARE CRAP.
I've owned 2(dynamic and static) and both wore terribly. Several friends had the same problems.
My favorite is STERLING talk about ropes that can with stand abuse!!
I have also owned a couple of Mammut ropes and thought they were outstanding ropes as well.
I generally climb trad routes and walls, with the occassional sport-o day mixed in- also a little ice ! My opinion is strictly based on how ropes I've owned(and some of my frequent partners) wore!
josh
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calpolyclimber
Jan 14, 2003, 6:44 AM
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I'll second the earlier vote for the Sterling 10.2, I love it.
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epic_ed
Jan 14, 2003, 6:49 AM
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I own three PMI ropes and I'll NEVER buy one again. I bought the last two because they were a deal at my local shop. I should have spent the extra $$ a bought something else. The second of my PMIs abraded very quickly and didn't handle very well (stiff); the most recent is one of their top of the line models -- 60M dry/bi-weave -- and it handles like a freakin cable! It is as stiff as dried log, and twists and kinks furiously. I've thougt about just tossing it in a wood chipper, but I'm not certain which piece of equipment would win that battle.
My climbing partners mainly use Mammut, and all of their ropes have had excellent qualities. Great hand and very durable. We have a 50M Flex that we just can't seem to destroy. I've also been very impressed with how Beal ropes handle and a buddy in CO swears by them. My next rope will likely be the Mammut Supersafe 10.2.
Ed
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sspssp
Jan 14, 2003, 7:05 PM
Post #37 of 49
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I appreciate all the comments on ropes. As I said in an earlier post, I'm looking to buy two 60m 8.1 ropes and I'm undecided. Beal or Mammut so far looks the best.
Just a clarification. When you (climbers posting on this thread) say the ropes handle great, does that mean they didn't twist up, or does it just mean that they stayed supple and didn't get the dreaded cable feel. For double ropes, I think I would rather have two cables than two twisted, interlocking, pigs tails.
Thanks.
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redpoint73
Jan 14, 2003, 7:17 PM
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Bluewater Accelerator is a good all around rope. But they DO seem to turn your hands black quick (pick up biner oxidation faster than others).
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jumaringjeff
Jan 14, 2003, 7:53 PM
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I'd been climbing on a Maxim 10.5x60 dry for the last 2 seasons before retiring it this fall. It was a great rope, very supple and never twisted.
I climb with tcollins often and he has a Bluewater which is also a very fine rope.
-jj
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flamer
Jan 14, 2003, 11:16 PM
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SSPSSP,
I have a pair of 60m 8.8's from sterling and they are wonderful ropes.
As far as "supple" goes generally I have found that these "softer" ropes wear faster. I believe this to be caused by the rope not being constructed with a tight "twist" in the sheath. This allows 2 things to happen-#1 the sheath will "slip" around the core easier, #2 the sheath "opens up" easier- IE the threads come apart easier allowing more dirt and grime into the nylon.
I prefer the way a stiffer ropes feels anyway.
josh
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sspssp
Jan 14, 2003, 11:48 PM
Post #41 of 49
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Well,
acutally I wasn't worried about the rope being supple. So that was why I was wondering what other climbers meant by the term good handling. Did they mean supple, not twisty or both?
The sterling is one of the ones I was looking at, but it was heavier. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I remember it being heavier (grams/meter) than most 9mm's even though it is listed at 8.8.
I know it is a trade off between weight, durability, and to some extent stretchiness and number of falls. But leading with two ropes is already going to be heavy. Since I'm not a starving student anymore, I thought I would go light and replace it when it wore out.
Thanks for the info.
Peace.
[ This Message was edited by: sspssp on 2003-01-14 15:49 ]
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flamer
Jan 15, 2003, 12:01 AM
Post #42 of 49
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Hey sure thing!
Something to consider about sterling is the fact that when they say A rope is 8.8mm they are ONLY TALKING ABOUT THE CORE DIAMETER. This is why they appear heavier than some 9mm's which measure 9mm from one side of the sheath to the other.
josh
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tanner
Jan 15, 2003, 12:32 AM
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I have a 10.5 mammut duadess dry rope and I love it. It has the best feel of any rope I've ever used. I've used it for about two summmers now and when i get a second rope I will buy another mammut for sure. The thing I like most about this rope is the Duadess (two color). Its way easer to see how much rope I have out and where the middle is.
I also would say that the 60Meter's is the best lenght for the type of climbing I go in Squamish. I've used ever inch of it on long pitches.
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tanner
Jan 15, 2003, 12:34 AM
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Sorry double post
[ This Message was edited by: tanner on 2003-01-14 16:35 ]
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noal
Jan 30, 2003, 7:56 AM
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Ok,
I'm almost certain that rope twist arises from two things, a) the use of either an ATC or a figure 8, or b)packing it up at the end of the day in something like a traditional coil and not a backpack type coil. The reason I've come to this conclusion is on the long rappell ropes that have only had a rack used on them, I see little to no coiling...I'm sure their are other factors envolved but my eyes hath seen what they've seen. Has anyone else had this same experience. P.S. I second the Bluewater suckage, freyed like crap...gonna try mammut now, any mammut fans have a paticular type that would be best to buy 600ft. of for rappelling?
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spydey
Jan 30, 2003, 9:44 AM
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get the mamut galexy it is awsome. had it for three years of good use and some nice falls. get it
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hugepedro
Jan 30, 2003, 3:11 PM
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I recently retired my craggin lead rope, it was a New England Ropes 10.5x60. It had the best hand of any rope I ever used, like buttah, and rarely twisted. However, now when I do a google on New England Ropes I get Maxim ropes, so I guess NE Ropes is not directly marketing their product any more, and the rope I had is not available from Maxim. I've had a 10.5x60 Maxim rope and it didn't compare to my NE Rope. I hated retiring that rope.
My new craggin lead rope is a Beal Top Gun, and I'm falling in love with it. It has the softest catch I've seen an any 10.5 rope - 7.2kn, and a very good hand.
I have a couple Bluewater Lightning Pro ropes 9.7x50 that I use for alpine stuff. For that application you can't beat the weight, but I don't use them very often so I can't speak to the durability issues that others have mentioned.
The only Mammut rope I've used is a 8.5x50 double that I use as a glacier rope. It has a real nice hand, but I can't speak to their single ropes.
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mustclimb69
Jan 30, 2003, 3:17 PM
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Mammut. Look fordeals. I got mine new but it was last years colour and it was 30% off sweet deal.
Goodluck
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adirondakclimber
Jan 30, 2003, 3:54 PM
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Sterling all the way!!!
I have a 60meter 10.5 and it is great, doesn't twist and has lasted through some bad treatment. My dad has a bluewater, i don't like it too much, it's heavier than mine and harder to handle.
my .02
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