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tenn_dawg


Jan 30, 2003, 2:13 PM
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Today I put up a practice aid climb in a tree near my appartment. It is an extension of a smaller project I had in a smaller tree.

My tree is a huge oak tree that goes up for about 50 feet then splits like a huge Y. I went to the hardware store and bought 10 3/8ths by 4 1/2 inch and 4 5/16ths by 4 inch eye screws. I carried a hammer and a socket wrench for installing them. Installing the screws involved bashing them with the hammer until about a half inch in then cranking on them with the handle of the socket wrench until I was red in the face. Great Stuff!

I was averaging about 3 1/2 feet between screws from the third steps. I could have easily jumped up to the seconds to save time, screws, and energy, but this route is intended as a training for my shortish partner for yosemite this summer and she's a bit vertically challenged. :roll:

I used the 3/8ths until I ran out, then 3 of the 5/16ths to make it to the first Y. I slung that as my anchor and backed it up with the last small screw. This is my first pitch, and my calibrated eye says it's about 50-60 feet. That's my first pitch.

I plan on going up the outside of the Y on the overhang about 50 more feet to the next large split.

This tree is going to allow me and my partner to practice basic aid speed and efficiency, Multipitch Cluster%@#$ Mangagement Lowering out the haul bag, and overhanging climbing and cleaning. And all just 100 feet from my front door!

My portaledge should be coming sometime next week, and I'm tossing around the idea of going out in the dark, climbing both pitches, and setting up the ledge at the top of the second pitch and bivying. You know, just to make sure that I can.

My partner who just happens to be female said that this was a "dumb" idea, but I'm not fazed.

I'm going to take some pictures of my tree in action the first nice day we get around here. Anyone have any suggestions for improvements, or other novelties?

I'm so proud, I just did my first aid first ascent! Too bad it couldn't go hammerless.

Travis


no_limit


Jan 30, 2003, 2:23 PM
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That is a great idea. I have a huge tree in my backyard that I could do that on. Great Idea.

Alex


newland


Jan 30, 2003, 2:35 PM
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how about settin up a tyrolean traverse


tenn_dawg


Jan 30, 2003, 2:46 PM
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I was thinking about that. I'd like to climb the Lost Arrow spire this summer and do the traverse rather than the rap the spire jug the notch lame way.

I'd have to bolt up another tree though, and that's an awful lot of work. Doable though.

Travis


Partner drector


Jan 30, 2003, 3:09 PM
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travis,

Will your anchors hold the force of a fall?

I've got an aid pitch (bolt ladder) in my 16 foot tall garage with some traversing across a beam. It's cool to aid climb on non-rock! your tree climb sounds cool.

Dave


rocknpowda


Jan 30, 2003, 3:25 PM
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Whether it is in your tree or 3 bolts up a sport climb, I would definitely learn how to set up your ledge from a hanging belay, it is totally different than setting it up in your front room or on a ledge somewhere. By the same token, finding any kind of ledge to set up your porta from is pretty good advice also.


brutusofwyde


Jan 30, 2003, 3:25 PM
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I originally thought this thread would be about Russian Aiders.

If your partner is vertically challenged, I strongly recommend you get her some Russian Aiders if she will be leading, as these will allow her to move more quickly and more efficiently on some of the long stretches of fixed gear you find on some of the easier aid routes in Yosemite.

Barring this, it is possible to make small cheater sticks by stiffening 8" runners with coathanger wire and duct tape. Two are necessary on repetetive fixed placements because she will be hanging on one while placing the next.

As far as the "dumb" idea, I strongly recommend that each of you set up the ledge several times while hanging in the tree. Setting up a ledge for a hanging bivy, in the dark, can be quite different than setting it up on the ground!

Brutus



no_limit


Jan 30, 2003, 3:25 PM
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Are they just lag bolts?, or do you have to go all the way through, and put a nut on the bolt?


tenn_dawg


Jan 30, 2003, 3:36 PM
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Drector,
I tested one of the 3/8 by 4 1/2 eye screws down low by taking a lead fall on it. I only had a little bit of rope out, and was using a gri gri setup to solo. I figured that this would be a good indication of the strength because the forces would be so high. There was no deformation of the eye, or elongation of the hole in the tree. I am confident of their strength.

I'm not sure about the 5/16ths by 4's though. They are a good bit smaller, hence why I used them up high.

No_Limit,
They are 4 1/2 inch screws with an eye head. Similar to a non welded cold shut in the shut position. Not quite bomber, but strong enough for the purpose. My anchors are slung Y's in the tree, and are bomber.

Yall should have seen some of the looks I got from other residents of my appts. I can just imagine what they were thinking of the goofball in the tree in the rain.

Travis


copperhead


Jan 30, 2003, 3:36 PM
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You could also practice your power-drilling technique by putting up another route and pre-drilling the holes for the lag eye bolts, provided you have a long enough extension cord for the drill, if not a battery powered one.

Have fun.


krustyklimber


Jan 30, 2003, 3:36 PM
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Sweet!

Camo the screw heads, and don't be hugely obvious, some tree hugger will get upset and call the cops.

Don't forget to get some resin to plug the holes after you take it down... AND DO NOT FORGET TO TAKE IT DOWN!!!
The tree will eat at the metal (unless you used stainless, and I doubt you found stainless eyebolts).

Sounds plenty safe to me, I have bolts half as long in my tree, with hangers, and they have held short falls and heavy loads. Back yourself up with a sling every once in a while and you will be fine either way though.

Have fun!

Jeff


tenn_dawg


Jan 30, 2003, 3:45 PM
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Krusty,
They're stainless. That's all the hardware store had. Ugh, they were about 2 bucks a pop too. Look good though.
Travis


krustyklimber


Jan 30, 2003, 4:11 PM
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Nuff said!

Dang those are pricey!

Still remember to take it down, so nobody get's hurt (when even the stainless bolts weaken), or the tree ends up swallowing the bolts (an arborist could get hurt in the future).

Jeff


Partner sauron


Jan 30, 2003, 4:24 PM
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You probably should check with the apartment management, and make sure they're okay with what you're doing to their trees...

Remember, always ask first.

- d.


pbjosh


Jan 30, 2003, 5:14 PM
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I personally can't commend what you've done to the tree though I imagine the tree will recover. The cooler way to aid climb trees (with ropes) is to climb them clean. Involves tossing ropes over branches and jugging a lot of the time, though if you do this a lot in the same place you can wear a slice into the tree which is also very unhealthy for Mr Tree Free climbing trees with runners and slings for pro and lead falling out of a tree is also a lot of fun.

josh


peas


Jan 30, 2003, 5:31 PM
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www.treeclimbing.com
They are way too hardcore.

[ This Message was edited by: peas on 2003-01-30 17:39 ]


tenn_dawg


Jan 30, 2003, 5:39 PM
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When you see the pictures of my tree you won't be worried about it anymore. No branches for about 55 feet, then it just splits. It's HUGE by the way.

I've worked with trees in a landscape/trimming service, and seriously, I'm not hurting the tree.

I understand your consern though.

Travis


Partner sauron


Jan 30, 2003, 5:55 PM
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tenn_dawg,

It's not about hurting the tree - it's about asking for permission to hurt the tree, before doing so.

- d.


Partner blazesod


Jan 30, 2003, 6:14 PM
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Tenn_Dawg:???:
Since you have been in the tree buisness how many years old do you think your tree is? Is it still living?

Do you think it would have made it this far if it had holes in its bark for insects and water to creap in?

There is a reason we don't bolt up every boulder, wall and crag. Because doing so will damage them. The same thing applies to "bolting" trees. At a bare minimum you have put some chinks in it's armor. Will you be there to protect it for the next 10+ years while it recovers?
I seriously doubt it.

-Blaze
[not an arbologist, just a misenthrope]


rideandclimbkid


Jan 30, 2003, 7:44 PM
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yes, there are holes in the bark. but they're plugged with bolts. considering the amount of square INCH-AGE that is exposed(without bark), i think the tree would be more susseptable to natural occurances such as buck scrapings from male deer in pre-rut, or the exposure when branches snap off here and there. havnt you ever made a tree hut when you were a kid? i think that would do more damage.

speaking of which...haha, you should bolt a line up to the 70 foot mark, and then build yourself a house so that only climbers can get there. imagine the look on a kids face when he goes to climb your bolts and doesnt get past the first one lol..."how the hell does this guy get up there?"

-Matt


alwaysforward


Jan 30, 2003, 8:28 PM
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good job tree huggers. keep it up. i'm sure the tree is gonna be fine though.


valygrl


Jan 31, 2003, 8:40 AM
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I'm sending your poor tree a hug....

I can't say I like this idea, it sound dangerous and bad for the tree.

And Sauron, haven't you heard it is easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.

But it is better to do the right thing in the first place.

Anna
Oops, I sound like a mom today...

Edit: spelling

[ This Message was edited by: valygrl on 2003-01-31 08:51 ]


tenn_dawg


Jan 31, 2003, 9:27 AM
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Oh come on!

Didint any of yall ever build a friggin tree house when you were kids? Have any of you ever cut down a tree for firewood? How about your houses, and apartments what are they made of? Or the table your computer is setting on right now?

For anyone interested in the preservation of trees enough to have a strong opinion I strongly suggest that you go take a forrestry class. Although it is easy to take the liberal path and disapprove of the use of trees for anything, the fact of the matter is, trees, and timber are used for EVERYTHING, and they are a RENEWABLE RESOURCE. This is hard to believe until you see it with your own eyes.

Ever come across a chimney in a forrest while hiking? Here's some news for you, When that house was built, It wasn't surrounded by trees. They used the trees to build the friggin house, and live there for 50 years. And they grew back!

Blaze,
It's an old growth timber, in an old growth forrest. Judging by the height of the canopy, the absence of any plush underbrush, or lower limbs on the trunk, and the nature of a deciduous (leaves fall off in winter) forrest, I would say my tree is alive and well at about 60-80 years old. My course is causing about as much damage as a hammock.

I know in some circles it's the cool thing to be activist for tree care, but come on yall. Pick your battles, there are such better places to focus your energy than on a climber in Knoxville, Tennessee, who is building a tree course, and knows a little about what he's doing.

How about the friggin rainforests, or as a bare minimum yall should be chewing out those kids down the street buliding a fort in their backyard tree. Keep it all in context, and lighten up just a bit.

Travis
Whose tread was just hijacked by activists, Ahhhh!


beyond_gravity


Jan 31, 2003, 9:53 AM
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Bugs can't kill the tree if you kill it first!

I suggest you brace the tree with metal poles, then cut it down...so it still stands up but is dead.

Then you can say the tree was dead when you bolted it.


bandycoot


Jan 31, 2003, 11:08 AM
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I think that if it is an oak tree as big as you are saying it is probably centuries old, not 60-80 years. We had one of those in the back yard when I was a little kid. Probably over 300 yrs old, then we moved and the bastards chopped the tree down...

[ This Message was edited by: bandycoot on 2003-01-31 11:12 ]

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