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stick233
Feb 2, 2003, 10:42 PM
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anybody aided with them before? feel good? bad? feedback please...
stick
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lazide
Feb 2, 2003, 11:52 PM
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personally haven't (but have a set). Seems like anything except a perfect crack, and you are going to tweak the u-frames. Looked at trango flexcams?
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crack_head
Feb 3, 2003, 12:15 AM
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they are crap don't buy them
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deafclimber
Feb 3, 2003, 12:31 AM
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c_head, why dont u like em ? just wonder...
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twrock
Feb 3, 2003, 1:09 AM
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(Disclaimer-I don't own them, but that hasn't stopped anyone from answering yet.)
They look very similar to many of the U-stem 4-cams and probably don't work much worse or better for aid than the other brand names. Since they are CE certified, their "safety" shouldn't be an issue either.
IMHO, U-stem cams work fine in the sizes above "small" for aid. Generally the vertical cracks are wide enough to accommodate the stem. (Goes for solid stem Friends as well.) In the smaller sizes, the U-stems sometimes do create a problem, especially in pin scar pockets. Head width becomes an issue here as well. Aliens are generally accepted as the best aid cams in the smaller sizes.
Also have a look at the "Flexbot" Cams made by Rock Empire and sold under a number of names (Acme, Kong, Trango; these I do own). They are single stem and have a fairly narrow head. However, variety in aid gear is a definite positive. Sometimes you find a placement that will only accept a TCU. Better to have options.
[ This Message was edited by: twrock on 2003-02-05 19:54 ]
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orangekyak
Feb 3, 2003, 1:11 AM
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I don't know much about aid, other than what I read on this site occasionally. I don't understand how "anything but a perfect crack" affects these cams more than any other kind of cam. Please advise.
o.k.
[ This Message was edited by: orangekyak on 2003-02-02 17:42 ]
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nangaparbat
Feb 3, 2003, 1:20 AM
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I have been thinking of buying some Rock Empire cams. Are they good for trad climbing? What about the other gear on the rock empire web site? Thanks for the Beta.
Matt
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twrock
Feb 3, 2003, 1:54 AM
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orangekyak, I think the reference is to the lower side of the U-stem cable hitting the bottom of the "crack" and bending over it. This does happen in pin scars where the piece is kind of forced to be a bit more horizontal by the lack of a wide enough crack below the boxed scar to accommodate it. A single stem unit works better in this situation, allowing the whole cam to rotate a bit more downward into a more desirable position. This is not an issue with only the Rock Empire cams.
But this is also not an issue 100% of the time. Every placement is unique and having both TCU's (U-stem) and 4-cam single stem units is good. U-stems in the larger sizes don't have this same problem since the cracks usually are more open.
I should have also mentioned Splitter cams as something to look at. They are quite unique.
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deafclimber
Feb 3, 2003, 1:56 AM
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nangaparbat,
i have 1.5 set of rock empire cams. they work fine with cracks. i am happy with them. i dont see a problem YET!.
i never try aid climbing with my RE cams. i dont think i will try that but anyway.
[ This Message was edited by: deafclimber on 2003-02-03 06:02 ]
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stick233
Feb 3, 2003, 6:54 AM
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i apprciate the help. has anyone actually aided on them? most seem to use them for trad, which i use my set for, but they just don't seem as solid as, say, a camalot. i am looking at the aliens too, but you can't beat the price on the robots, i recommend them to everyone for trad.
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climbingcowboy
Feb 3, 2003, 7:01 AM
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I'm learning aid to and have some old metolious with U shape but I like my camolots and aliens way more, they place so easy.
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apollodorus
Feb 3, 2003, 7:19 AM
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The word on the street is the small ones are cool, but the big ones are too narrow along the axle, and walk pretty easily.
For aid, they're probably no worse than any other single axle cams. And the price is great for a big aid rack. You'll probably want to mix them up with other cams, especially hybrids and Camalots (best ones for leap-frogging because of their wide range).
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wigglestick
Feb 3, 2003, 3:13 PM
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I have a set of Robot cams, well actually my roommate does but they are basically mine. They work just as well for aid as do any other cam. The only problems is that they don't go very small. But 90% of the time for aid quantity of gear is more important than quality of gear. I would rather have 6 sets of so-so cams than 2 sets of really nice cams.
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machina
Feb 3, 2003, 3:29 PM
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Rock Empire cams are a REAL good deal if you're fine with cams made in a Czech sweatshop from second-rate Soviet surplus materials. Oh, yeah, and they're crappily safety tested... But, hey, aid's only supposed to be body weight anyway, so maybe you'll be safe...
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johnhenry
Feb 4, 2003, 12:44 AM
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All these replies and only one person who has used them...
I have aided with them a bunch. They work as well as any u-stemmed unit.
I mirror the comment above that the single stem variety of the same cam (acme, trango, etc) is better for aid. The single stem seems to let you offset the cam lobs easier as well.
If you are going u-stem, Rock empire makes a nice set of three TCU's that are a good complement to small cams. Cheap too!
Rock On, John
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stick233
Feb 4, 2003, 6:45 AM
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thanks john. i have a set of robots and camalots up to 3.5, so maybe now i'll look into single stemmers like aliens or acmes. they will mostly be aid cams anyway, as i feel better placing the camalots for trad.
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twrock
Feb 4, 2003, 7:06 AM
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machina, I'm curious, do you know your assertions to be true; can you back them up?
"Czech"-yes, I believe this is true.
"sweatshop"-just in the summer, or is it hot in the winter as well?
"second-rate Soviet surplus materials"-evidence? source for your info? what's wrong with the materials, specifically, or is it just that the "Soviets" had something to do with it?
"they're crappily safety tested"-let's see, they are CE certified and have been tested to the same standards as all other CE certified cams, so how is this true?
"aid's only supposed to be body weight anyway"-actually I hope at least some of my gear/placements will hold falls, otherwise every aid pitch would be potentially rated A5.
I mentioned that I have some of the Acme Flexbot Cams made in that same "Czech sweatshop from second-rate Soviet surplus materials" and "crappily safety tested." Personally I'm quite happy with my purchase and don't fear for my safety any more than I would on any other cams. The quality looks quite good to me. But maybe you could enlighten us further? (Or are you just having fun, seeing who would take the bait?)
[ This Message was edited by: twrock on 2003-02-05 19:59 ]
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