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rockwarrior1
Feb 12, 2003, 9:30 PM
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I am new to sport climbing and I have seen that some of the sport routes that I have found just have two bolts for lowering down from.....I know how to lower from chains and cold shuts but how do you set up and lower from just two bolts???
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jbrd528
Feb 12, 2003, 9:54 PM
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Your best be is to buy a book such as Falcon guides "Rock Climbing". This will go over the process step by step.
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blueeyedclimber
Feb 12, 2003, 9:56 PM
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Can't you just anchor in, take yourself off belay, slide the rope through the bolts, and rappell down?
Josh
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alpnclmbr1
Feb 12, 2003, 9:58 PM
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Put t wo quickdraws on the bolts clip the rope to the quickdraws and lower.
If you need to clean the route, and it is not set up for lowering. have the second follow and clean the draws, then walk off the top
If the route has those metolius big ears? (a fat beefy hanger) then thread the rope and rappel. don't lower off of these, it will torch your rope
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climbsomething
Feb 12, 2003, 9:59 PM
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And are these just regular ol' bolts like you'd see on the route, or those big honkin' Metolius rap bolts?
(Yes, I am using the scientific terminology today)
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coclimber26
Feb 12, 2003, 10:00 PM
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I use two quickdraws, one on each bolt. Another technique is to use a daisy chain with a locker. I try to make a small bight and push it through the rings while the rope is still tied to me. Once through then I untie, pull the slack through then retie. Beware, lowering or toproping wears the bolts quickly. If you plan on toproping then attach two locking carabiners to the bolts..
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reborne
Feb 12, 2003, 10:02 PM
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edit
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crswallrat
Feb 12, 2003, 10:05 PM
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Hmmm? Not really a good idea just to rap straight off of bolts. For one I think
it puts some strain on the ropes but also it's a pain in the butt to pull the rope through the bolts.
If walking off isn't an option I'd say just carry some extra webbing with you and some rap rings and lower off those. Not a good idea to just lower off the slings 'cause the rope could could melt through them as your being lowered, and that would be really uncool. But you could just rap off the slings without the rings but then whoever came after you would have to deal with the weakened slings. Just leave the rap rings too and score the good karma points.
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rockwarrior1
Feb 12, 2003, 10:06 PM
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Hey, thanks for all the info.....I figured that you would probably just clip in and rap the route I just wasnt totally positive...
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fritzski
Feb 12, 2003, 10:17 PM
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I have found that most rap anchors consisting of regular bolt hangers rather than shuts or hangers with chains or rings on them are that way because it is possible to walk off.
If not, you can normally thread the anchors if they don't appear unduly sharp edged and gently rappel down (not lower) without moving a weighted rope over the anchors. After you're off, it can be a bit hard to pull your rope down cause it won't slide well over the hangers. Just be gentle on it so you don't damage your rope.
Another option would be to carry along some screw links you can get at Home Depot for about $2.95ea and put those on the hangers for rings and just donate them. Also some sacrificial webbing preferably with a rap ring or two (also cheap), can be rigged and left. Just make sure you know the correct way to sling the webbing (no American death triangle).
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fritzski
Feb 12, 2003, 10:18 PM
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I have found that most rap anchors consisting of regular bolt hangers rather than shuts or hangers with chains or rings on them are that way because it is possible to walk off.
If not, you can normally thread the anchors if they don't appear unduly sharp edged and gently rappel down (not lower) without moving a weighted rope over the anchors. After you're off, it can be a bit hard to pull your rope down cause it won't slide well over the hangers. Just be gentle on it so you don't damage your rope.
Another option would be to carry along some screw links you can get at Home Depot for about $2.95ea and put those on the hangers for rings and just donate them. Also some sacrificial webbing preferably with a rap ring or two (also cheap), can be rigged and left. Just make sure you know the correct way to sling the webbing (no American death triangle).
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seabee
Feb 12, 2003, 10:22 PM
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Wow, Fritski, you're willing to risk your life to a $2.95 piece of gear from Home Depot? What kind of quality control does the factory in Bangladesh have?
At the very least, I'd use stainless gear from a reputable marine hardware manufacturer.
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tenn_dawg
Feb 12, 2003, 10:33 PM
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Don't thread your rope through the hangars.
Sheesh!
Two big things wrong here.
1. The radius of a standard bolt hangar is WAY too short for a rope to be weighted over it. Even rapelling could seriously damage your rope. I don't think that the core would break, but the sheath would almost undoubtably rip eventually.
2. The friction of the hangars on your rope would make them damn near impossbile to pull down. Think about it and try this.
Thread your rope through the hangar of a single bolt low on a sport route. Hang about 10 pounds of weight from one side, and then try to lift it by pulling down on the other.
Make any progress? Thought not.
Travis
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burz
Feb 12, 2003, 10:42 PM
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Remember that when you pass the rope through two hangers the rope makes two 90 degree bends. If you thread it through one bolt, yes, the thickness of the hanger would most definately come into question. Typically, if there are no chains (at least where I climb) there will be beefy hangers that you can thread the rope through and rappel. I have on ocassion rapped on a rope threaded through two regular bolts (because that was all there was). I inspected the bolts, there were no sharp edges, they were in good condition, and away I went. Yes there was more friction when I pulled the rope, but not that much more than beefy hangers or chains. Take this for what it is worth. The key is not to lower from anything but carabiners. Rapping is a different story.
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fritzski
Feb 12, 2003, 11:03 PM
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The $2.95 Home Depot screw link is the same one REI sells for $3.95. Buy it for a buck more there if that makes you feel any better. They are rated to hold about 7000 pounds static weight and I've seen them and used them numerous times with no trepidation. I always have a couple of those, some rap rings, and webbing rolling around the bottom of my pack just in case they're needed..
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petsfed
Feb 12, 2003, 11:43 PM
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The links are designed for use in tow chains for pete's sake! If its not strong enough to lower off from, then what the hell are we doing using them to drag trailers around with? Think about what you're saying before you say its not safe. Incidentally, I think petzl sells them for 5 bucks a piece, so be appropriately warned.
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seabee
Feb 13, 2003, 12:38 AM
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Well, hey, maybe it's a psychological thing, but I'd feel a lot better putting my life in the hands of a ISO 9001-certified factory as opposed to some sweatshop in India (which is where the Home Depot version comes from, I dunno about REI). Yeah, they're designed for 7000 lbs, but how about manufacture?
These are the thigns I think about as I'm rappelling...
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tenn_dawg
Feb 13, 2003, 1:00 AM
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Burz,
The only way that I could see you recovering your ropes through hangars would be if the route in question was very short, (very little weight to pull up) and you pulled the rope from well to the side of the bottom of the route (reducing one of the angles). OR, if the route ended with some beefy Rap Hangars.
Make sure that you know what rap hangars look like before you thread your rope through what you think is a rap hangar. They really are not very popular. The Hangar/Ring combo is much more prominant.
I have personally tried to recover a rope that was used to to rap from the top of a 90' sport route. The rope was threaded directly through standard hangars. No Dice. The guy had to use my rope to reclimb the route.
In regards to the 2 90 degree angles.
Take a piece of Perlon, or Nylon cord 5-7 mm, and weight it over a sharp 90 degree rock edge with body weight. The sheath will easily rip all the way around.
I'm not saying that the rope will break when weighted through hangars, but it is REALLY bad for it. You are taking it to a limit it was not designed for.
Why not take care of your rope, and rap from a sling, or top out?
Travis
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jt512
Feb 13, 2003, 2:43 AM
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If the hangers are not rap hangers and there is no walk off, then you should thread them with slings and a rap ring and rap.
-Jay
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burz
Feb 13, 2003, 1:33 PM
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Tenn_Dawg,
Yes, I have only done that on short routes. Good point. Thanks,
Jon
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