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kagunkie
Sep 5, 2001, 4:04 AM
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If you have a long traverse or big roof to clean sometimes the best way to clean it is for the second to follow the pitch on aid using the same pieces you did to lead it. Otherwise it could be tough on jumars.
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passthepitonspete
Oct 10, 2001, 6:06 AM
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OK, let's keep it simple here, eh? Cleaning an aid traverse is not rocket science, it's actually quite easy. There are a few things that you need to do.
Firstly, make sure your leader doesn't backclean any pieces that he absolutely doesn't have to. Cleaning pieces can make it impossible to follow! Having enough gear of the right size can make all the difference between making the cleaning job a piece of piss, or turning it into an epic. So don't let your leader backclean any gear. If he DOES backclean gear, make sure that he left one of that kind farther back on the traverse so that you can place the gear while you're cleaning as though you were actually on lead. In other words, if he backcleans a 1" cam, make darn sure he has left one behind somewhere that you can clean, so when you get to the place where he backcleaned, you can stick that piece in.
Sometimes you can get away with backcleaning if there is a fixed piece of gear that you can use as a lower-out point. Fixed gear is common on trade routes. Make sure you know how to construct a 4:1 lower out, and make sure you have a few pieces of extra sling with you to stick on fixed lower-out points.
Secondly, NEVER clean with jumars alone. For straight vertical or overhanging pitches, use one Gri-gri on your harness, and one jug. That's all you need. If the jug is on an adjustable daisy, or you have an adjustable fifi, so much the better. If you don't believe that the Gri-gri rocks for cleaning, try it. After 30 or 40 feet you'll be sold for life. It is a constant backup, and you can release it when under load, which is extremely useful when cleaning a very steeply overhanging pitch.
Thirdly, on a dead horizontal traverse it may actually be easier to clean the thing using your aiders. In this instance you will actually aid along on the aiders using your jug(s) and Gri-gri really only as backup - you obviously won't be weighting the rope, you'll be hanging on your aiders. If ever there was a place to score great booty, it's on traverses. There's always some wanker who just can't figure out how to do it, and ends up leaving something behind. It's so incredibly easy - you should NEVER have to take a swing, unless maybe your leader busted off some free moves. A few other smart things to do would be to make sure you have some hooks with you if it's a hook traverse - you may find yourself doing a super-long lower-out otherwise. Cam hooks can be handy while cleaning traverses, too. Pass The Pitons Pete never EVER leaves booty on traverses..................
.......well, OK, ALMOST never, but I just couldn't be bothered cleaning the damn pin!
Cheers,
Dr. Piton
Note:
Since writing this post, I have written The Definitive Post on how to clean aid, and I would encourage you to click here to read Dr. Piton, cleaning an aid pitch with two jugs is a pain. Is there a BETTER WAY?
[ This Message was edited by: passthepitonspete on 2002-12-16 19:00 ]
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kagunkie
Oct 10, 2001, 6:32 AM
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Thats great info! Ill have to read it a couple more times so I can extract all the good points there. Stick around and keep giving beta.
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passthepitonspete
Oct 10, 2001, 7:26 AM
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Dude, I've got more beta than heads, pins and cams combined!
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passthepitonspete
Oct 30, 2001, 6:35 AM
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Look, there is no rocket science to cleaning an aid traverse. There is ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE whether you are rope soloing, or whether your partner led the pitch. What you will have to do to clean it will be exactly the same.
This being said, a few things to keep in mind.
First, you should never backclean ANYTHING on a traverse. If you backclean it, you'd better have it or an identical piece available when you go to clean it, or you are buggered. And if you're rope soloing, then you have no one to blame but yourself!
If you used cam hooks on the traverse, then you'd better remember to bring them with you when you clean! Ditto for regular hooks!
There are creative things you can do to lower yourself off of fixed points. Please tell me you know how to do a 4:1 lower-out from a fixed lower-out point so that you can recover your rope. If not, you'd better Ask Dr. Piton.
Chances are also good that you will need to bring your aiders with you when you clean the pitch, and simply aid you way along exactly the same way as you led it, with your gri=gri as backup.
You have to think about what you're going to do ahead of time, so you don't end up stuck. It is a TERRIBLE SIN to leave behind gear.
REMEMBER: Part of your worth of being a wall climber is to end up with MORE gear at the end of the climb than you started with.
This means that you have to be BETTER at cleaning stuff than the group in front of you, and the group behind you! If you leave something, you have no one to blame but yourself!
You want to be able to scarf the gear that the unfortunate sod ahead of you had to leave, because he or she didn't know how to do something as fundamental as clean an aid traverse.
How do you learn?
Practise! Practise! Practise!
Keep thinking, be creative. Big wall climbing is nothing more than never-ending problem solving. You must become an engineer, as engineers are trained to solve problems.
Despite the fact that I am the World's Worst Professional Engineer (man, you wouldn't believe how hard it was for me to get my P.Eng., it was said that "although my technical qualifications were not in question, it is said my interpersonal relationships leave something to be desired...." and what should have taken two years took like 6 cuz this dickhead boss gave me a bad referral, and if you don't like my interpersonal relations, well then BITE ME!) I am a Master when it comes to solving Big Wall Problems.
And that is for the simple reason that I ENJOY solving big wall problems, and I really HATE doing "engineering".
Yours,
Dr. Piton,
aka Peter Zabrok, P. Eng.
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elcapbuzz
Dec 4, 2001, 4:56 AM
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Dr. Piton makes some very good points. I'd have to say he's one of the "wall masters". I go about it another way. I back clean like a banchee. The key is to use the 4:1 lower-out that the good Dr. was talking about. Make sure you put a good peice of pro in right before some fixed gear. You can usually see them on a traverse, the one's with all the raty hero loops. Then when you go to clean you pull the good gear out. Get on the fixed peice and lower-out. There's no reason to take big penulmn's. In fact it's very dangerous.
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passthepitonspete
Dec 6, 2001, 3:01 AM
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Nice idea, psycho boy! I remember this look of amazement on your face when I saw you peel off of South Seas. I'm like, "what happened?" and you're like, "Oh, I was too lazy to stick in a pin and my cam hook popped or something...." I'm just snickering cuz you had this sort of confused look on your face as you were dangling a thousand feet off the deck.
Damn, that was some keg party, eh? I gotta write up my Sea of Dreams trip report, and you've gotta do the South Seas one.
Hey, do remember phoning me the night you got down off of your solo of Sea of Dreams?
Do you remember anything about that night?????
Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!! [diabolical Dr. Evil laughter]
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elcapbuzz
Dec 11, 2001, 2:15 AM
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Uhh, NO. What night? OK, you shouldn't snicker to hard, because I didn't snicker when you called me on the radio from the summit and begged me to rap down and fix the last couple of pitches for you..so that you could make your flight. Yea, I botched it on the cam hooks. I just got doing the Rubberband Man Pendulumn, I got into this great crack and started to cam hook past my high point I didn't place pro so it would be easier to clean. Anyway, the sling on my cam hook blew, sending me across the face and losing the cam hook. Here's a good tip, if your a cam hook freak like myself, use full strength 1/2" webbing on all your hooks.
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passthepitonspete
Dec 11, 2001, 5:05 AM
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Even with Nick climbing all night, I just barely made the bus to the airport in time! Man, had I missed that flight, that was the 30th day of a 30-day flight, I'd have had to pay like an extra thou U.S. for a one-ticket!
I remember you yelling over that the sling on the hook broke, no that you mention it.
This is me belaying Nick during his all-night lead:
Gotta love those Gri-gris, eh?
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bshaftoe
Apr 17, 2002, 9:05 PM
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Ammon mentioned the 4-to-1 lower out above, a drawing of the technique can be found here: Drawing of 4-to-1 lower out while cleaning an aid traverse.
The original post can be found here: "Dr Piton... please explain 4:1 lower out."
-Shaft
[ This Message was edited by: bshaftoe on 2002-04-17 14:06 ]
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