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kahuna3602
Dec 10, 2001, 7:05 AM
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Ok this is a question followed by a rant. Has anyone ever heard of a body that certifies climbing/ascending/rappeling? Aside from AMGA I don't know of any organization that would do this, and AMGA is for guiding. Now here's the rant....
This question is from adventure racing which is another sport I participate in. Recently A.R. has taken some bad turns and I think this another scam to go with it. Now don't get me wrong, I got into climbing and mountain biking thru A.R. and for that I'm eternally grateful, but it seems like it's gotten too popular and over regulated and just kind of losing the adventure part of it. Here is the deal, you go to a half day class where for $125 you learn to ascend, descend and rappel and are certified for one year. Well if you've learned these skills why would you forget them in a year? I think Darwinian theory would take care of the people who did. And why learn it when you've been successfully doing it for a few years, just for the paper? And what qualifies the people who gives these classes? Can I get in on it and save for my trip to CO next summer? I think after paying up to $3000 for a 4 person team to get stuck for $125 a person and then again for white water paddling is a bit much. And honestly what can you really learn in one half day? Just enough to kill yourself. (A "trained and certified" AR racer recently dropped 35 feet in a gym after unclipping the wrong beiner). Ok rant over..
[ This Message was edited by: kahuna3602 on 2001-12-09 23:07 ]
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andy_lemon
Dec 10, 2001, 6:30 PM
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I think NOlS U. would be a better choice than falling for certification. I'm pretty sure at the end of each class you receive a certificate... but then there is a difference between certified and a certificate: http://www.nols.edu/
In certain fields you must be certified yearly just to make sure you didn't sit on your ass all year and not practice. For instance, knowledge of CPR can be lost in a years time. That is, if you don't practice. But I can only find one reason.
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aulwes
Dec 10, 2001, 6:58 PM
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The rock climbing class at NOLS in Arizona looked lame, (unless you have never rock climbed outdoors before... it looked to be mostly top roping and "Mock lead climbing") ... but the one in Wyoming looked a bit better.
Has anyone taken one of these classes? If so how are they?
[ This Message was edited by: aulwes on 2001-12-10 11:01 ]
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andy_lemon
Dec 10, 2001, 7:25 PM
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I've heard from people who have taken the mountaineering courses. They loved it! But who wouldn't love to bag Denali?
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diarmid
Dec 11, 2001, 1:16 AM
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This brings up a problem I have, you can get something similar in Britain, an SPA - Single Pitch Association? I forget what the 'A' stands for ... but if you get a cert in the states, you can't use it in the UK, or France, and if you get a French Cert, you can't use it anywhere else that I know of. You'd think by now we could get a committee together to regulate this kind of thing, but too much money grubbing, do-things-my-way red tape is seriously hampering what could be a real boon to the climbing community: safe, effective, training schools that follow a set guideline in which instructors would prove a solid skill foundation, thereby giving a greater number of people the knowledge and authority to take others out and pass on their love of climbing. You have it in every other freaking sport, to include ping pong and badmiton, so why not climbing?
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climb512
Dec 11, 2001, 1:51 AM
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get all the racers organized and dont take the courses, they are as you said just $ for the promoters. if they have no racers they have no race. then they are out of cash. there are so many people who want to be "adventurers" that will pay that 125. until the weekend warriors are gone there isnt much you do except dont race.
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talonsofsteel
Dec 11, 2001, 2:37 AM
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i agree
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naturalhigh
Dec 11, 2001, 11:44 AM
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On the issue of NOLS courses (particularly the mountaineering ones). I recently went on a short winter climb (really a hike) with a guy who was a NOLS Alaska graduate. Anyways, I have no certifications besides my CPR, First Aid, and firefighting certs I got while working with the USFS as a wilderness ranger. But this guy, on a short DAY trip, with the trail head no more than an HOUR away, brings a freakin' sleeping bag and stove - Just in case.
JUST IN CASE?
I'd like to see the scenario in which, on a heavily traveled short winter route, you would need to bivy (much less use a stove!).
All in all, my overall impression of him was that he was undertrained and overpampered. Didn't know what really mattered and what didn't. Anyways, maybe the program really is good, but my experience with "NOLS Graduates" has been less than enthusing. Want to learn how to climb? CLIMB. Want to learn how to mountaineer? CLIMB MOUNTAINS. Also read books, talk to experienced ppl, and THINK. Don't rely on "rules". Trial by fire, the best way. You'll never forget something you work out for yourself.
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naturalhigh
Dec 11, 2001, 11:45 AM
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Though you gotta admit, "certification" is a great racket for us poor climbers! Hehehehe...
Earn money to teach people what we learned for free? AWESOME!
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