|
klimer
Feb 21, 2003, 8:32 PM
Post #1 of 47
(6297 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 20, 2003
Posts: 27
|
I am wondering wether you use a gri-gri while belaying for lead climbing or an ATC. I am just wondering for my own knowledge. I have no intention of trying to lead climb without being with an experienced climber. Thanks.
|
|
|
|
|
jerrygarcia
Feb 21, 2003, 8:54 PM
Post #2 of 47
(6297 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2002
Posts: 837
|
atc
|
|
|
|
|
whitefingers
Feb 21, 2003, 9:18 PM
Post #3 of 47
(6297 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 12, 2003
Posts: 124
|
I really dig my Petzle Reverso :D
|
|
|
|
|
rodeomountain
Feb 21, 2003, 9:25 PM
Post #4 of 47
(6297 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 23, 2002
Posts: 190
|
I don't think it matters. I make my brother use a gri gri cause he has a short attention span and it gives me peace of mind. I have no problems with it. Although, if you have someone that knows how to use an atc it makes the lead much smoother.
|
|
|
|
|
klimer
Feb 21, 2003, 10:40 PM
Post #5 of 47
(6297 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 20, 2003
Posts: 27
|
Thanks for your answers, I appreciate it.
|
|
|
|
|
no_limit
Feb 21, 2003, 11:01 PM
Post #6 of 47
(6297 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 1, 2002
Posts: 973
|
Any tube< edit > device works well :)
I did mean TUBE Sorry
|
|
|
|
|
overlord
Feb 22, 2003, 12:12 AM
Post #7 of 47
(6297 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 14120
|
NO_LIMIT: you mean TUBE???
i like grigri, and use it.
CLIMB ON
|
|
|
|
|
lalamur
Feb 22, 2003, 1:29 AM
Post #8 of 47
(6297 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 16, 2000
Posts: 216
|
the atc is the best belay device ever invented
|
|
|
|
|
coldclimb
Feb 22, 2003, 1:36 AM
Post #9 of 47
(6297 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 14, 2002
Posts: 6909
|
I love the reverso. It is an ATC, but with an extra option or two on it, like automatic lockoff for belaying two seconds at once, and without any moving parts either. Far better than ATC in my mind.
|
|
|
|
|
weaselman
Feb 22, 2003, 2:09 AM
Post #10 of 47
(6297 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 17, 2003
Posts: 294
|
no_limit is right. grigri puts too much shock on the rope to be trusted for belaying the leader.
|
|
|
|
|
tenn_dawg
Feb 22, 2003, 6:31 PM
Post #11 of 47
(6297 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 14, 2002
Posts: 3045
|
Oh, COME ON!!
Since when is a Gri Gri no good for belaying a leader??
Gri Gri's are revolutionary belay devices that are designed Specifically for belaying leaders.
The only time I would consider using anything other than a Gri Gri (given that one is avaliable) is on hard Trad. Since this post is in a sport climbing forum however I'm taking your comment in context.
Where did you come up with the idea that the Gri Gri puts too much shock on the rope for leading? This is what it is for!
Travis
|
|
|
|
|
no_limit
Feb 22, 2003, 6:52 PM
Post #12 of 47
(6297 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 1, 2002
Posts: 973
|
I'm not right. I didn't say anything about shock. All I said was that tube devices work well. I've never used a gri-gri to belay a leader before, so I can't say if it work well or not.
I do think that a gri gri would work better than an ATC for belaying a leader on a multipitch, but I have never used it there either.
|
|
|
|
|
weaselman
Feb 22, 2003, 7:05 PM
Post #13 of 47
(6297 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 17, 2003
Posts: 294
|
ok, fine then. no_limit is wrong
|
|
|
|
|
climberer
Feb 22, 2003, 7:22 PM
Post #14 of 47
(6297 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 19, 2002
Posts: 72
|
hey weaselman, you're right.
The Gri-Gri gives a much more static belay than any tube device. When you catch a fall with a Gri-Gri the rope doesn't slip much through the device. However with an ATC there's only so much force that the device can hold before it lets the rope slide through a little bit (something like 3kN but I'm not sure about that number). Therefore the slippage through the ATC results in a more dynamic belay. the Gri-Gri transfers more of the fall's force to the climber and the top pice of pro.
But then again, why does this matter in sport climbing? i doesn't really. Only for dicey trad (tenn_dawg you're right about that) when you're concerned about falling and popping out your last piece.
check out Petzl's fall simulator
|
|
|
|
|
daisuke
Feb 22, 2003, 7:33 PM
Post #15 of 47
(6297 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 28, 2001
Posts: 904
|
A belayer that knows how to use a gri-gri well will be able to provide dynamic belay to lessen whipper force, I´ve climbed with people that know how to do it, it´s hard and I don´t know how, I preffer to use an ATC when belaying someone on lead.
D
PS: I bet the gri gri was made to belay people that take too damn long to climb! (like me on some routes)
|
|
|
|
|
tenn_dawg
Feb 22, 2003, 7:52 PM
Post #16 of 47
(6297 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 14, 2002
Posts: 3045
|
Alrighty now,
A Gri Gri gives a more static belay than an ATC, or other tube device yes. My response was to the statement that a Gri Gri was not to be trusted for belaying leaders.
In reply to: grigri puts too much shock on the rope to be trusted for belaying the leader.
No, it simply does not.
Travis
|
|
|
|
|
jorian_nl
Apr 30, 2004, 6:44 PM
Post #17 of 47
(6297 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 27, 2004
Posts: 190
|
In reply to: Alrighty now, A Gri Gri gives a more static belay than an ATC, or other tube device yes. My response was to the statement that a Gri Gri was not to be trusted for belaying leaders. In reply to: grigri puts too much shock on the rope to be trusted for belaying the leader. No, it simply does not. Travis
It does,it grabs the rope when it feels a shock.
|
|
|
|
|
scracus
Apr 30, 2004, 9:45 PM
Post #18 of 47
(6297 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 23, 2004
Posts: 71
|
I hope the bolts on the "sport routes" in question do not rely on dynamic belay for integrity. That is what good bolts and dynamic ropes are supposed to accomplish; not that a good dynamic belay isn't appreciated at times.
|
|
|
|
|
georg_cantor
Apr 30, 2004, 10:20 PM
Post #19 of 47
(6297 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 24, 2004
Posts: 7
|
while learning how to belay i heard some horror stories about using a grigri on a leader. the jist was something along the lines of when using a grigri if the leader wants slack it is difficult to let out slack without taking one's right hand off of the rope. this guy said he had taken a rough deck fall from this grigri incident.
i prefer an atc anyway.
|
|
|
|
|
metolius21
May 1, 2004, 12:19 AM
Post #20 of 47
(6297 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 14, 2004
Posts: 65
|
guykguykghkg
|
|
|
|
|
mattheww
May 1, 2004, 1:48 AM
Post #21 of 47
(6297 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 16, 2001
Posts: 121
|
I used a Gri Gri for the first couple years I was climbing and still prefer to use it on toprope. For leading I prefer my ATC-XP since it's a lot easier to give slack when the leader is trying to clip a draw. I've been short roped so many times by someone using a gri gri I now insist my belayer use something else (as long as they know how to use it). They both have their uses but for leading I'll stick with an ATC.
|
|
|
|
|
dredsovrn
May 1, 2004, 2:01 AM
Post #22 of 47
(6297 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2003
Posts: 1226
|
You will get a lot of different opinions on this, so here's mine. I don't like a gri-gri for any kind of belaying. If I am going to have a device that auto locks, I want to be able to take my brake hand off and be lazy. Since I can't do that, I stick with my tube devices. I also feel I have more flexibility and responsiveness from a tube device. I can also rappel with it. That's just me. Lots of people like gri-gri's. Not I.
|
|
|
|
|
c_kryll
May 1, 2004, 2:53 AM
Post #23 of 47
(6297 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 18, 2002
Posts: 146
|
I don't know why I'm responding to this as this topic has been hashed to death numerous times. But for some strange reason I have time on my hands so I'll give my $.02
The Gri-Gri is a tool, and like all tools has multiple uses. If you learn how to make the most of it the Gri-Gri can make hangdogging hard sport routes easier. Once you learn the "tricks" of a gri-gri, belaying leaders with a dynamic belay is a simple process and just as safe as using an ATC. Every tool has limitiations and so does the gri-gri but to me it's not the tool that's being used to keep me off the ground that's important it's the fool controling the tool. Inexperience still kills, no matter what type of belay device you use.
On a side note, even though this is in the Sport Climbing Forum: The Gri-Gri is used by AMGA guides regularly in various aspects of climbing, not just belaying. If I only had one choice for a belay device, I'd probably choose a gri-gri just for the versatality of it. In some ways it exceeds even that of the Reverso. But that's just my opinion.
Chris
|
|
|
|
|
texastechclimber
May 1, 2004, 6:25 AM
Post #24 of 47
(6297 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 2, 2002
Posts: 83
|
c-kryll is right on!!! I bought a Gri Gri about two years ago, and the first several times I used it I could not get the hang of feeding out rope fast enough. Now I have gotten use to it and can feed out better with the Gri Gri than an ATC without taking my hand off the ground side of the rope. It is also possible to give a dynamic belay with a Gri Gri. I cant stand using an ATC now. I am sure there are those people who do, but I do not know one person that has a Gri Gri and would rather use their ATC. The biggest complaint about the Gri Gri is that it makes people lazy and isnt safe. There is a simple solution to that. Dont let it make you or your belayer lazy!!! The problem I have is when someone unfamiliar with the Gri Gri, uses mine and short-ropes me while I am on a hard lead. I prefer when I am on hard routes that my belay use whatever device they can feed rope faster with. I have found that most, not all, people that do not like the Gri Gri are the ones that have only used it a few times and have not gotten use to it, or are the ones that have seen, heard, or been one of the lazy belayers belaying with one. This is just my opinion and I am sure there are lots who would disagree.
|
|
|
|
|
theangryenchilada
May 1, 2004, 8:45 AM
Post #25 of 47
(6297 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 16, 2002
Posts: 41
|
you guys are all silly. my partner and i belay each other off a bentgate beener. its bent for that reason, and its SOOOO cheap, not like figure 8s or ATCs. we just wrap it around it like six times or so and its fine for toproping anyway. we are learning how to lead soon.
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
