|
one900johnnyk
Feb 23, 2003, 4:43 PM
Post #1 of 15
(3767 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 23, 2002
Posts: 2381
|
i am not looking for a comprehensive rack here. just something to get started. so far i was thinking of a set of 8 cams, 13 stoppers w/a few doubles like #5,7,11, etc. how many runners, and of what size? also about.. 6 draws? and of course some ovals for racking gear and more biners for the cams... i have a budget, but am just looking for help that would be good in a lot of situations. thanks
|
|
|
|
|
no_limit
Feb 23, 2003, 5:12 PM
Post #2 of 15
(3767 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 1, 2002
Posts: 973
|
Try reading this article
http://www.rockclimbing.com/articles/view.php?ID=95
it helps a lot.
Alex
|
|
|
|
|
adamwvt
Feb 23, 2003, 5:54 PM
Post #3 of 15
(3767 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 1, 2002
Posts: 146
|
Hey Bro, I think you have the right idea. I live in Vt, and climb trad most of the time here in New England.
I only have one quick draw, and that is for ice climbing. I go with many shoulder length slings and two doubles length ones. They are the most versitle for slinging natural pro like trees and horns. Also you can gith hitch them. When leading winding pitches, this helps to keep the rope running in a straight line, and to reduce your rope drag. Mine are all dyneema, except for some tubular webing that I can leave anywhere. I got a great deal on a set from an on line company.
Oval carabiners are the most useful, I just got some new wire gate ones and love them.
On your rack, I would strongly suggest getting the two smallest (pink, and red) tricams. They rule.
There are so many slcd's to chose from, that I won't bother suggesting any, but I think if you get 8, you will be stoked.
Have fun :wink:
|
|
|
|
|
one900johnnyk
Feb 24, 2003, 12:14 AM
Post #4 of 15
(3767 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 23, 2002
Posts: 2381
|
i have read that article. it's not as fun as having people shout out what they'd buy if they could buy their first rack again. thanks!
|
|
|
|
|
texplorer
Feb 24, 2003, 1:11 AM
Post #5 of 15
(3767 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 24, 2002
Posts: 199
|
Well JohnnyK,
I suppose it really depends on what kind of climbing you plan on doing but I am going to assume you are speaking of crag climbing. If I could only have 8 cams I would say get the Orange and Yellow Aliens and BD cams .75, 3, and two each of the number 1 and 2 size. With those cams and one set of nuts you should be able to climb alot. If you have a partner with a similar rack you can do most climbs up to the .10 range. I agree with investing in lots of runners. I usually carry about 6 two foot runners and about that many quickdraws. I disagree with oval biners however and recommend going with wire gates over ovals if you can afford it. Wires are lighter and just as strong and that will make a difference as your rack starts to grow. Good luck and happy climbing.
|
|
|
|
|
one900johnnyk
Feb 24, 2003, 3:37 AM
Post #6 of 15
(3767 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 23, 2002
Posts: 2381
|
they make wiregate ovals now. is that okay? or should i stick to wiregate d style biners? or bent gates
ps i plan on learning much of this when i follow a few people in a few weeks but i want to be as well informed as possible. i hate being completely ignorant going into anything, really. thanks a lot!
|
|
|
|
|
flamer
Feb 24, 2003, 3:40 AM
Post #7 of 15
(3767 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 22, 2002
Posts: 2955
|
I second the vote for wire gates, However! DO NOT rack your nuts on wire gate biners! They will come mysteriously unclipped....
Here is the standard rack I carry...
small cams...either Aliens or TCU'sFrom the Blue alien(or purple TCU) to the Red Alien(or OrangeTCU).
Camalots .5 to #3.
Nuts- one and a half sets(#3thru #13). Double up on the mid sizes.
Runners- 12 full length- doubled back to Quick draw length. Although it is quicker to wear them over the shoulder.
Now If you need specific gear for a route then add or remove as needed.
But this is a good all around rack. It's also what the guide books refer to as a "standard" rack. have fun!
josh
|
|
|
|
|
apollodorus
Feb 24, 2003, 4:39 AM
Post #8 of 15
(3767 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 18, 2002
Posts: 2157
|
A "First Trad Rack" with what you suggested is pretty nice. Maybe too nice. Are you sure you need all those pieces? It sounds almost like an aid rack.
Unless you are going to get all those cams as part of a deal, get the stoppers and a few cams, from fingers to hand size. Then, after using that you can see what's best for you and your area.
No point getting cams you'll just want to sell on eBay, eh?
Hand-to-Fist are the best cam sizes to get at first. Stoppers will cover the smaller cracks, and the OW cams are not for the faint of heart.
|
|
|
|
|
ubotch
Feb 24, 2003, 6:14 AM
Post #9 of 15
(3767 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 19, 2002
Posts: 191
|
You might want to consider getting keylock biners for racking. I got some and I prefer them to the old notched ovals that I was using. It just makes it easier to get the pro off the biner.
I would also say that if you double up on stoppers, you should make the second set a different shape then the first. I have a set of Black Diamond and Metolius nuts, and sometimes one works where the other won't.
|
|
|
|
|
ricardol
Feb 25, 2003, 12:46 AM
Post #10 of 15
(3767 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 11, 2002
Posts: 1050
|
I just started my rack, and i feel like its pieces make a pretty complete starting rack.
* .5 to 3.5 Camalots (Double on the .75 and 1) -- will be doubling the 2 also soon
* .5 to 2.5 Tricams (most people only get the 1st 3 tricams -- but i've used them all)
* 1 set of stoppers (BD)
* 1 set of hexes (i dont use the big ones, and have rarely placed the small ones)
* For slings i have 7 shoulder length slings and 3 double slings. (each one with 2 biners, the rope end is always a hotwire.
* I also carry 6 metolious quickdraws (that i already had -- i just like to carry extra draws in case i sew up a climb) -- there is nothing worse than running out of slings before you reach the belay. (actually i guess running out of gear is just as bad)
* some racking biners. (ovals)
usually i only borrow some lockers and smaller cams from my partners rack when we climb. (my next purchase will be the small cams, and i've decided to go with the camalots in the .2 to .4 sizes) -- all the .1 cams i've placed have been "no fall" pieces, meaning that i can't fall on them -- so i dont like carrying them
.. oh also its important to know what you're building your rack for... mine is intended for multipitch climbing in the western states, (yosemite, pinnacles, red-rocks) .. where some of the belays may be natural. (i think i need more cams)
-- ricardo
|
|
|
|
|
smithclimber
Feb 25, 2003, 1:59 AM
Post #11 of 15
(3767 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 15, 2002
Posts: 338
|
Ok, for what it's worth, here's my recommendations (which are not much different from Flamer's really).
If you are only going to get 8 cams and plan on doing more FINGERCRACK type stuff, I recommend the following:
0.3 Camalot (or the green Alien)
0.4 Camalot (or the yellow Alien)
0.5 Camalot
.75 Camalot
1 Camalot
2 Camalot
The remaining 2 cams should be a second 0.4 & 0.5 or a second 0.5 & .75 Camalot.
BD Stoppers #4-#13 (or the equivolent sizes by another company) w/ doubles on sizes #6-#10
NOTE: Size numbering differs from company to company. For example, a #7 BD Stopper is not the same as a #7 WC Rock. Likewise, a #3 Camalot is not going to be the same size as a #3 Metolius cam.
You may already be aware of this, but I mention it in case you decide to order online. Realizing these "size conversions" are VERY important in selecting your gear, especially if you are ordering something you cannot see in your own hands.
1 nut tool (also ANY biner, even the little toy ones for it and keeper cord too)
2 ovals (non-wire for racking the nuts)
8 D's biners (wiregates are nice), one will be for each cam.
10-12 24" runners (over the shoulder length)
20-24 more D biners (put 2 on each of the 24" runners, then triple the runners so they are "quickdraw length". They will be easily extended to full length when necessary.)
OPTIONAL: another 4-6 regular sewn quickdraws (with biners, of course)
3-4 locking biners for use with a cordolette and attaching yourself at belay stations.
A cordolette (or webolette if you really prefer). Make your cordolette from 25 feet (NOT 17ft. or 20ft, as is commonly advised) of 7mm perlon (which holds up to the repeated flexing it will encounter better than the 5.5mm high strength cords, i.e. spectra, kevlar, technora, etc.)
I PROMISE you, the first time you need to equalize more than 3 pieces or even 3 pieces that are well spaced, you will appreciate the 25ft. length.
If the 3 pieces are VERY CLOSE or you are equalizing 2 bolts, you can simply double the entire cordolette (effectively making the working length half) before clipping it in.
If you are only going to get 8 cams and plan on doing more HANDCRACK type stuff, I recommend the following:
0.4 Camalot (or the yellow Alien)
0.5 Camalot
.75 Camalot
1 Camalot
2 Camalot
3 Camalot
The remaining 2 cams should be a second #1 and #2 Camalot.
BD Stoppers #4-#13 (or the equivolent sizes by another company) w/ doubles on sizes #6-#10
1 nut tool (also ANY biner, even the little toy ones for it and keeper cord too)
2 ovals (non-wire for racking the nuts)
8 D's biners (wiregates are nice), one will be for each cam.
10-12 24" runners (over the shoulder length)
20-24 more D biners (put 2 on each of the 24" runners, then triple the runners so they are "quickdraw length". They will be easily extended to full length when necessary.)
OPTIONAL: another 4-6 regular sewn quickdraws (with biners, of course)
3-4 locking biners for use with a cordolette and attaching yourself at belay stations.
A cordolette (or webolette if you really prefer). Make your cordolette from 25 feet (NOT 17ft. or 20ft, as is commonly advised) of 7mm perlon (which holds up to the repeated flexing it will encounter better than the 5.5mm high strength cords, i.e. spectra, kevlar, technora, etc.)
I PROMISE you, the first time you need to equalize more than 3 pieces or even 3 pieces that are well spaced, you will appreciate the 25ft. length.
If the 3 pieces are VERY CLOSE or you are equalizing 2 bolts, you can simply double the entire cordolette (effectively making the working length half) before clipping it in.
Good luck!
Cheers, Wes
|
|
|
|
|
texplorer
Feb 25, 2003, 2:54 AM
Post #12 of 15
(3767 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 24, 2002
Posts: 199
|
JohnnyK, with the wire gates I would suggest mainly the D-type if possible but there are several new oval wiregates out there that are really light and not too expensive. ie the Doval. I am currently in the process of upgrading my rack to neutrinos and using other large wiregates for draws and slings.
Many people like the ovals for their value and they claim they are better for aiding. I have found that when aiding however they are not really a great advantage. The disadvantages of oval are that they are weaker than the D-type biners and also can have a smaller gate opening, as well as usually being slightly heavier.
|
|
|
|
|
cracklover
Feb 25, 2003, 3:06 AM
Post #13 of 15
(3767 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10162
|
1900johnny - just two points. Both are mistakes I made that perhaps you can learn from:
for small cams (smaller than .5 Camalot) get Aliens. If you don't you'll wish you had later. I bought some Aliens and some TCUs. I find the TCUs much less versatile, and I hate the U-style stems, because of the torque possibilities.
For your first set of nuts - get Smileys (or whatever they're called now). They're identical to the Black Diamonds in every way except: they're color coded anodized finish, and they're a good deal cheaper. I think they're always on sale on REI Outlet.com
Have fun!
GO
|
|
|
|
|
tradklime
Feb 25, 2003, 6:31 PM
Post #14 of 15
(3767 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 2, 2002
Posts: 1235
|
Great starting rack:
Full set of flex cams from acmeclimbing.com and 1.5 set of anodized color coded nuts (doubled on mid sizes). This will get you most places.
From there you will want to eventually add some light weight larger cams, aliens, and some micro nuts.
|
|
|
|
|
vegastradguy
Feb 25, 2003, 6:42 PM
Post #15 of 15
(3767 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 28, 2002
Posts: 5919
|
actually, i think i did fairly well with my first rack. i love it, actually.
8 cams? hrm....try green & yellow aliens. then #.5-#3 camalots. then, either the blue alien or #3.5 camalot, depending on what you want, or double up on a cam or two.
a set of stoppers will do you fine.
depending on where you climb, pick up a half dozen to a dozen runners, and enough ovals for racking and clipping. a half dozen draws will work, just make sure they are longer than standard. short draws suck on trad unless you're climbin an 800 foot plum line crack all the time.
i would also recommend a few larger hexes as bail pieces, just in case. better to leave a couple hexes than $200.00 worth of cams.
|
|
|
|
|
|
