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mother_sheep
Feb 27, 2003, 3:37 PM
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2 Part Question:
What legnth of cord and knot type should I use for my adjustable fifi?
Yesterday I ordered sewn daisys as opposed to adjustable daisys. I know one works just as well as the other but from what I've been told, it is easier to use adjustable daisys. Would using an adjustable fifi on my sewn daisys make my life a bit easier on the wall since I don't have the adjustable daisys? Or should I just cancel my order for the sewn daisys and go for the adjustable ones?
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spike
Feb 27, 2003, 4:16 PM
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I use 3 feet of 6mm cord. I think I use an overhand knot on the end that I girth hitch the adjustable fifi to my harness. I tie a BIG stopper knot on the other end. Make sure you put a piece of cord at the top part of the fifi hook about 4" in length as a grab loop. The fifi 6mm cord is blue and the grab loop is green --- colors keep me organized. Keep the regular daisy and use it inside your pig. Get ADJUSTABLE DAISYS. I like YATES adjustable daisys.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...mp.cgi?Detailed=3881
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fishypete
Feb 27, 2003, 4:38 PM
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My crystal ball tells me this thread will get repetitive....
GET ADJUSTABLE DAISIES!!!
CANCEL YOUR ORDER FOR SEWN DAISIES!!
They will increase your speed no end.
Cheers
Fishy.
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atg200
Feb 27, 2003, 5:43 PM
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GET ADJUSTABLE DAISIES!!!
CANCEL YOUR ORDER FOR SEWN DAISIES!!
They will increase your speed no end.
Cheers
andrew
ps i don't bother with adjustable fifis.
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passthepitonspete
Feb 27, 2003, 6:34 PM
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I'm not quite sure if anyone mentioned this yet, but
GET ADJUSTABLE DAISIES!!!
CANCEL YOUR ORDER FOR SEWN DAISIES!!
Metolius has a superior adjustable daisy to Yates. Get two different colours.
An adjustable fifi is actually hard to find - not many dealers carry them. The hook itself specifies 7 mm cord, but you need the slipperiest 6 mm cord you can find. With the adjustable daisies, the cord need only be about 2' long so about a 3' hunk will do you. You might need to try various manufacturers' cords because some are slipperier than others.
Remember to tie a backup slipknot in the free end of the cord after you cinch it up, or your slippery cord may suddenly release you!
Not everybody uses adjustable fifis, but I really like them because they allow you to fine tune your topstepping.
Question for Andrew - have you ever tried one?? If so, why don't you like it.
You will find plenty of stuff on how to rig your adjustable fifi, along with some really swell photos, by clicking here to Ask Dr. Piton ... about moving systems. Last time I looked, this post had over six thousand hits, so you guys are obviously using the information.
Let us know how you make out, eh?
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epic_ed
Feb 27, 2003, 6:35 PM
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Ditto on the adjustable daisies. I do have a couple of regular sewn daisies for other stuff, so if these are your first ones, it won't kill you to keep them. I use a regular daisy independently on my harness and clip it to gear when making reachy placements in case I fumble it.
I am completely unable to find an adjustable fifi. I stopped searching because I really haven't felt the need for one with using the adjustable daisies. When moving up on gear I cinched my daisy close enough to use my fifi; slap the fifi in when I'm close enough; then when I need to step higher and I'm being pulled down by my fifi, I find that if I just pop the fifi off the biner my adjustable daisy is at the perfect length to keep the tension while I'm top stepping. I wouldn't mind trying an adjustable fifi (especially for the price -- only about $6?), but I'd don't feel compelled to use one at this point.
Ed
BTW -- I have the Metolius adjustables and like them just fine.
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mother_sheep
Feb 27, 2003, 6:52 PM
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I THINK I JUST MIGHT GET ADJUSTABLE DAISIES!!!
I'LL KEEP MY ORDER FOR SEWN DAISIES AS SUGGESTED BY SPIKE!!
They'd better increase my speed to no end.
Cheers and THANKS!
Tracy
P.S. Ed, the adjustable fifi that I am borrowing is made by Kong. I've searched for them myself and had no luck finding one to buy either.
I figured I'd get some old schoolers responding "Use the sewn daisys!" Guess you guys have seen the light???
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euroford
Feb 27, 2003, 7:02 PM
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do you think somebody could post (or email me) a picture of an adjustable fifi laying flat on a table next to a ruler (imperial please!)?
i'll go ahead and draw it up and see if i can make one or have one made. they are hard to find, but they are so SIMPLE that i see no reason not to just make one!
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mountainmonkey
Feb 27, 2003, 9:06 PM
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Tracy,
Neptune's in Boulder has the Kong adjustable fifi in stock. The adjustable fifi is very helpful on regular daisies, and a luxury on adjustable dasies (at least for not-so-hard aid).
Unfortunately, for the rest of you away from Denver, I don't think they ship anything.
http://www.neptunemountaineering.com
Adjustable daisies are very nice but not a necessity. You could certainly do a wall without them by just using regular daisies. Regular ones are not as fast nor as easy to use when jugging or leading an awkward pitch. You could certainly save the extra cash ($14.95<$21.95). Also, adjustable daisies only have thier use for aiding (or cleaning a sport anchor) whereas reguar dasies can be use for the same things and more. So if you get regular dasies, you can always get adjustable ones later and still have uses for the regular daisies.
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atg200
Feb 27, 2003, 9:29 PM
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Pete - I am so far climbing A3 and under, so I find the speed tradeoff of not using the fifi and being slightly less comfortable top stepping to be worth it - the less crap i have to fiddle with and make excuses about the better. when i grow a sack and start hitting those fisher towers A4 horror shows i will likely start using my adjustable fifi some more. for a straight in easy vertical wall route like prodigal son, an adjustable fifi is just not at all necessary.
i got my adjustable fifi from some climbing shop in wisconsin that i found on the net. wish i would have known neptunes stocked them.
andrew
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base104
Feb 27, 2003, 9:49 PM
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Yes, yes. If you know where to order a Kong-Bonaitti adjustable fifi on the web or a Kong-Block Roll compound pulley on the web, please post.
You can actually haul like in the old days, slap a jumar with a few pins on it pointing down from the pulley. Takes about five seconds to set up and stronger than any compound pulley I know of. Of course you need the compound pulleys for the two to one ratchets. Still, makes you wonder if you aren't just hauling too much S--t. We used to never have trouble hauling until beer came along.
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eclarke98
Feb 27, 2003, 10:40 PM
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Registered: Aug 23, 2001
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The Kong adjustable fifi hook, also know as the resting fifi hook: $8 http://www.promountainsports.com/hardware.shtml?hardware-aid.shtml
and
$3.32 http://www.barrabes.com/barrabes/product.asp?pf_id=2485
As for the Block Roll, you may be out of luck. The only place on the internet that sold the Kong Block Roll was barrabes.com but they no longer carry it. I asked PTPP where he got his and he gave me this link to Inner Mountain Outfitters: http://www.caves.org/imo/
but when I contacted them, they said that they were out of stock and that they couldn't locate any other place in the USA that had some. I finally gave up and ended up getting a great deal on one of these on eBay. Much stronger than the Block Roll. http://storrick.cnchost.com/VerticalDevicesPage/Misc/HaulingPulleyPages/HaulPulley691.html
-Eddie
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flamer
Feb 27, 2003, 10:57 PM
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Registered: Oct 22, 2002
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Tracy,
So you've been out practicing eh? I have a couple of sets of adjustables(yates) and would be willing to let you borrow a set. If you want to go out and practice a little let me know I know some great practice climbs and might be talked into giving you a belay and some tips.
By the way! There is a technique for topstepping that completly mitigates the fifi tension issue. It was shown to me by Ron Olevsky(I know I know Let's not get into Ron's crazy ethic's). It's extremly easy, but I'm sure as hell not going to write some marathon post to describe it! If you want to know it get a hold of me...
josh
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twrock
Feb 28, 2003, 1:24 AM
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I know where I can get both the Kong Fifi and Block Roll. Problem is I'm half-way around the world from most of you all.
[edit-removed offer to sell adjustable fifi's]
BTW, I am keeping one [adjustable]. I did use it for one practice climb, but went back to my keylock biners and clipping in. Maybe if I "graduate" to harder aid I'll switch, but I do like the "security" of clipping in. For topstepping, I just have a loop of webbing on my harness dialed in at the right length for my height.
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valygrl
Feb 28, 2003, 6:47 AM
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Flamer...
Oh c'mon, tell us this cool topstepping method you are talking about... please???
Anna
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passthepitonspete
Feb 28, 2003, 6:53 AM
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Good point, Andrew.
On easy aid, I don't bother with the hook, either. Just slam and go.
Problem is, I haven't done much lately.
But it's always a trade-off between clusterf*ckage and speed. Use what works best for you, but make sure you try everything and practise it.
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flamer
Feb 28, 2003, 10:47 PM
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ARGHH!! Ok, since Anna asked so nice I'll try.
I hope I can explain this without screwing it all up! It's much easier to show somebody how.
First of all you will need to be using 2 aiders on the piece you will be top stepping.
Ok, first you have to get up in your topsteps. I either find a hand hold/jam or yard up on my daisy.
Now take your right foot (in needs to stay in the top step) and cross it between the rock and your left leg/foot, it will be above your left foot.
The OUTSIDE of BOTH your right and left foot need to be against the rock and in their respective topstep.
Now push against the rock with the outside of your toes(on both feet).
This creates a "levering" action that forces your hips and, thus your upper body INTO the wall.
When you use the fifi tension trick you are actually levering outward.
The "olevsky trick" works well inconjunction with the fifi so try it incombination.
The primary use of this trick is when you know you're going to be working out of your topstep's for awhile, it gives great hands free balance. It will slow you down if you're looking to move quick.
Hope this helps....If I can clarify anything let me know...
josh
P.S.
I just figured out how to use the colors!! As you can tell I'm a real computer wiz...
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valygrl
Feb 28, 2003, 10:58 PM
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Thanks [indigo]Josh[/indigo]... maybe i'll go try that this weekend! :D
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tylerphillips
Feb 28, 2003, 11:36 PM
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YO LISTEN TO PTPP, HE KNOWS HIS SHIT. I have adjustable dasiys and I won't EVER go back to the goddamn fi-fi method. There is a good reason it's call technology. (hooked on phonics didn't work for me) :P
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