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PTPP Describe A4R
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spike


Mar 10, 2003, 4:29 PM
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PTPP Describe A4R
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Pete,
I have been looking at Sea Of Dreams and on P15 I see A4R, plus on Atlantic Ocean Wall P6 I see A4R. Could you describe what the R looks like.


bigwalling


Mar 10, 2003, 4:55 PM
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Like "Oh shit! This damn hook better stay put, because those fucking #1 heads below me will surely blow. OH FUCK is that a ledge 60 feet below me?"


mother_sheep


Mar 11, 2003, 2:43 PM
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. . .and when you get through answering that, will someone tell me how does a route gain an A5 raiting without someone having fallen to their death.


flamer


Mar 11, 2003, 6:43 PM
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Tracy, It's theoretical....you see in theory someone COULD fall to their death. A lot of people don't believe in this type of rating...that's where the NBD and DFU ratings come into play....
josh
P.S. Don't ask me about these...it's somebody else's turn... :shock:


jhwnewengland


Mar 11, 2003, 6:57 PM
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A5 doesn't mean death fall, it means possible 200 foot factor 2 fall (the belays are still solid). Of course, you COULD die pretty easily on a fall like that, but they have been taken and people have survived.

A6 is the theoretial rating - the belays aren't solid, most likely wouldn't hold a fall. Fall on that pitch, you probably die.


passthepitonspete


Mar 11, 2003, 7:34 PM
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It looks haaaaarrrrd, mate.

DFU.


bigwallben


Mar 11, 2003, 7:54 PM
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In reply to:
A5 doesn't mean death fall, it means possible 200 foot factor 2 fall
If you were at the top of a two hundred foot A5 pitch it would be a four hundred foot fall, and I don't think you will live to tell the tale of that one.

Ben


copperhead


Mar 11, 2003, 10:21 PM
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...and for it to be a factor 2 fall, you would have to back-clean the entire pitch.

Ratings are subjective and worthless.

I like this system:

1 rating for everything - YTM. 'You Tell Me'


bigwallben


Mar 11, 2003, 10:25 PM
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In reply to:
...and for it to be a factor 2 fall, you would have to back-clean the entire pitch.

If you rip the entire pitch isn't that still a factor 2 fall?

Ben


copperhead


Mar 11, 2003, 10:31 PM
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No, because ripping gear would slow down your fall.


apollodorus


Mar 11, 2003, 10:44 PM
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The A5 Death Pitch on Reticent goes up above a big, sloped ledge. You wouldn't really factor 2 on that pitch. You'd first factor 0 onto the ledge, and then factor 1 after you rolled off it.

And A5 and Death Pitch are, indeed, theoretical. Hook or Book on the Sea of Dreams has been referred to as, "The first, if you fall, you die" pitch on El Capitan. But, Heinz57 saw an asian guy whip big on Hook or Book last fall, when he was on the Trip. And then the team retreated. So, there has been at least one fall on that pitch, and the leader lived.

What topo are you looking at that has A4R? Reid's doesn't have that. Is that A4 hooks, with very little other gear? Like Hook or Book?


copperhead


Mar 11, 2003, 10:50 PM
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Apollo-
Your statement above proves that the rating system is worthless and that routes see serious degredation over time. The Reticent pitch is not a death pitch. Keep theorizing.


apollodorus


Mar 12, 2003, 12:49 AM
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Yeah, Steve Gerberding told me last fall that he'd recently been up near that A5 pitch on Reticent, and he'd seen some heads pasted in. So, it's now A3, or something.


spike


Mar 12, 2003, 7:18 AM
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Hi Apollodorus
Sea Of Dreams P15 I see A4R, plus Atlantic Ocean Wall P6 I see A4R in Yosemite Big Walls: Supertopos


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