|
andesrocks
Feb 21, 2003, 9:54 PM
Post #1 of 25
(3947 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 3, 2002
Posts: 25
|
If you know please share...
Thank you.
|
|
|
|
|
therealbovine
Feb 21, 2003, 10:20 PM
Post #2 of 25
(3947 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 10, 2003
Posts: 270
|
When leading, if you reach down to grab the rope, pulling it up to clip, but you've accidently reached below the previuos peice of gear to do so, then you'll be Z-clipped. The rope now runs fom your belayer, through the top peice of gear, back to the peice below that, then to you. Not so good....!
|
|
|
|
|
weaselman
Feb 21, 2003, 10:21 PM
Post #3 of 25
(3947 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 17, 2003
Posts: 294
|
major typo... sorry. i was looking in a book and copied the wrong diagram.
z clipping as explained in the book:
0clip into this 4th
|this rope goes from 3 to 4
0clip into this 3rd
| this rope goes from 2 to 3 and then i pulled up and clipped into 4
0clip into this 2nd
| this rope goes from 1 to 2
0clip into this 1st
|
|
|
|
|
therealbovine
Feb 21, 2003, 10:25 PM
Post #4 of 25
(3947 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 10, 2003
Posts: 270
|
Weselman, looks like the post views differently than you were planning.
To view what "Weaselman" was actually trying to post, click "quote" on his message.
|
|
|
|
|
climbjs
Feb 21, 2003, 10:31 PM
Post #5 of 25
(3947 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 1, 2002
Posts: 379
|
Bovine's got it. z-clipping leads to a very unpleasant situation....
|
|
|
|
|
cobra652004
Feb 21, 2003, 10:34 PM
Post #6 of 25
(3947 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 30, 2003
Posts: 143
|
While it's true that Weasel's picture will make the rope zig-zag in a Z shape, that's not Z clipping, as I learned it.
It's realy more N clipping than Z clipping, because the rope will be going up from the belayer to a bolt, then back down to a bolt below the highest one you're clipped in to, and then up to you. If you were to label the bolts on a section of a climb 1-4, where 1 was at the bottom of the section, and 4 was at the top, a Z clip would be 1-3-2-4.
Makes things really difficult, not fun.
|
|
|
|
|
kman
Feb 21, 2003, 10:58 PM
Post #7 of 25
(3947 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 16, 2001
Posts: 2561
|
Bovine has the least confusing answer.
|
|
|
|
|
one900johnnyk
Feb 22, 2003, 7:22 PM
Post #8 of 25
(3947 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 23, 2002
Posts: 2381
|
weasel: delete your post that is wrong information. z clipping is way worse than back clipping but you only need to be conscious of it when the pro is very closely spaced
|
|
|
|
|
xanx
Feb 22, 2003, 8:03 PM
Post #9 of 25
(3947 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 6, 2002
Posts: 1002
|
ok so now i c what Z-clipping was, but what is the danger of it? back clipping can cause the rope to come out of the beaner, but what is bad about z-clipping, besides tangleing the rope up some?
thanks
mike
|
|
|
|
|
fo_d
Feb 22, 2003, 8:34 PM
Post #10 of 25
(3947 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 4, 2001
Posts: 918
|
Kinda like skipping a clip but also would cause more rope drag and there are probably other dangers that I dont know or remember but as someone said this happens when pro or bolts are close together like in a gym.
|
|
|
|
|
one900johnnyk
Feb 22, 2003, 9:12 PM
Post #11 of 25
(3947 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 23, 2002
Posts: 2381
|
draw a picture and see how far you'd fall had you not done it. he is right, it is kind of like skipping a clip though. and drag would be a bitch
|
|
|
|
|
nailzz
Feb 22, 2003, 10:11 PM
Post #12 of 25
(3947 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 13, 2001
Posts: 244
|
In reply to: drag would be a bitch
It's likely that you would end up not even being able to pull the rope at all from all the extra friction. Then, you have to downclimb, fix your |=|_||< up before you can go any farther.
|
|
|
|
|
andesrocks
Feb 24, 2003, 3:22 PM
Post #13 of 25
(3947 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 3, 2002
Posts: 25
|
therealbovine, thank you very much.
I read a post about GYM competitions, where you are dis. if you un-clip (skip it), back-clip or if you z-clip. Knew what the other two were....
Thank you all for your time.
Climb Hard and Safe.
|
|
|
|
|
redpoint73
Feb 24, 2003, 3:37 PM
Post #14 of 25
(3947 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 20, 2002
Posts: 1717
|
The danger of z-clipping is that you are not protected by the highest bolt (the one you just clipped) if you fall after clipping it (and before clipping the next one), but will actually fall to the previous bolt. So as stated, your fall distance will be as if you skipped the clip. The bolts have to be rpetty closely spaced in order for this to happen.
|
|
|
|
|
updude
Mar 10, 2003, 8:26 AM
Post #15 of 25
(3947 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 15, 2002
Posts: 3
|
I have read, in a petzl catalog, that when you do something like z-clipping it essentially shortens the rope to the length of the rope form you th the point where you z-clipped. If you take a fall, there is less of the rope to stretch and "cushion" the fall. You run a greater risk of injury from a fall.
|
|
|
|
|
climbingpride
Mar 11, 2003, 10:56 PM
Post #16 of 25
(3947 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 6, 2001
Posts: 571
|
I wish all bolts were close enough to Z clip.
|
|
|
|
|
ebelay
Mar 11, 2003, 11:22 PM
Post #17 of 25
(3947 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 5, 2002
Posts: 195
|
pride, climb at jack's and your wish will come true but your balls will never get any bigger.
-e
|
|
|
|
|
jomamazaho
Mar 17, 2003, 3:18 AM
Post #18 of 25
(3947 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 25, 2002
Posts: 35
|
I was climbing at atlantis at Queen Creak in AZ on my first lead. Was climbing this 5.10a route, prob. shouldn't have been my first lead but whatever, and i got to the crux of the route which is a horizontal crack that you have to traverse over to the right a couple feet and then right on up to the top from there. I was having a heck of a time learning how to clip in and pretty much wasted all my energy on every single bolt so i was dead tired and just reached down for the rope not looking at where i got it from. The next thing i heard was a bunch of laughing and that's when i knew i did something wrong. It wasn't that big a deal cuz i just unclipped it from the 2nd bolt down but it could have been real bad if i fell while clippin in. Anyway, message to beginners, start off leading on easy stuff so you can learn how to clip in right :wink:
|
|
|
|
|
freudian
Mar 17, 2003, 3:46 AM
Post #19 of 25
(3947 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 23, 2002
Posts: 236
|
Just how close are people placing bolts to allow for z-clipping accidents to occur? At our local climbing gym, we have pre-placed draws every 4-5 feet and I have NEVER had a z-clip problem or even seen a possibility of it happening.
I could only guess that these bolts that people are z-clipping with are 2 feet or less apart. In that case I would swear at the losers who placed bolts tha close together, esp. if that's outside. Bolts shouldn't be place closer than 5' apart if its a short climb like upto 40'. If its over 40', like 100-120', every 8-10 feet is fine. If you get a little unnerved cause of the mild run-out, you could bring up some trad gear and place some gear between bolts.
That's just how I see things, if anyone else would like to add their opinions, I'd like to read them. Please don't flame me for my opinions.
Freudian
|
|
|
|
|
climbingpride
Mar 17, 2003, 5:18 PM
Post #20 of 25
(3947 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 6, 2001
Posts: 571
|
Freundian, reach strait down, thats like what 2.5 feet, maybe 3 for me, then reach strait up, thats another 2.5 -3 feet. That makes a total of 5-6 feet. You your self said that bolts are 5' apart in your gym so i think that that falls within Z clipping rage. But still it is a rare accurence.... for me atleast.
|
|
|
|
|
ptone
Mar 23, 2003, 11:24 PM
Post #21 of 25
(3947 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 5, 2003
Posts: 350
|
I've only z-clipped once, and my belayer caught it and wouldn't let me go til I noticed. It could have been a ground skipper had I pulled rope to clip at the next clip for sure.
The bolts were not that close, but I was coming out from under an overhang, stretched back under, grabbed, then clipped over my head. My belayer stopped me on my second move past. (He was gentle, but I almost fell then!!)
If it happens, best thing to do is just back up and unclip the draw before, no need to redo it unless you're worried about gear placement or shaky bolts. The second you unclip that, you are protected by the highest piece again.
Shake it off and go--those moments give me the willies!!!
happy climbing -p
|
|
|
|
|
apollodorus
Mar 23, 2003, 11:42 PM
Post #22 of 25
(3947 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 18, 2002
Posts: 2157
|
I find it amazing that sport climbers put their protection bolts so close together, that Z-clipping is possible in the first place.
In my day, when bolts where that close together, it was called a Bolt Ladder and was used for aid. If someone freed that section, they wouldn't waste the time and energy to clip every bolt.
And aid climbers don't z-clip because they know better than to reach up and clip the rope into the next piece. They wait until they're standing high on it, and are about to move onto the next one.
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Mar 25, 2003, 3:20 AM
Post #23 of 25
(3947 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
In reply to: I find it amazing that sport climbers put their protection bolts so close together, that Z-clipping is possible in the first place.
Actually, z-clipping is more of a gym issue than an outdoor sport climbing issue. If the bolts are that close outdoors, there's usually a pretty good reason.
In your day, bolted routes were too dangerous to fall on very often. Exceeding your limits on climbs like those would often result in injury. This made learning slow. Sport bolting made it possible to exceed one's limits and fall routinely, making it easier to learn to climb at higher grades. In your day 5.12 was elite; today it is a grade attainable by just about any one willing to shed their pot belly.
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
tripperjm
Mar 27, 2003, 8:55 PM
Post #24 of 25
(3947 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 7, 2002
Posts: 10650
|
jt512 wrote; "In your day 5.12 was elite; today it is a grade attainable by just about any one willing to shed their pot belly."
So let me get this straight, all I have to do is lose my gut and I can climb 5.12? I hope there is more to it than that.
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Mar 27, 2003, 10:22 PM
Post #25 of 25
(3947 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
In reply to: jt512 wrote; "In your day 5.12 was elite; today it is a grade attainable by just about any one willing to shed their pot belly." So let me get this straight, all I have to do is lose my gut and I can climb 5.12? I hope there is more to it than that.
Well, I was using "willing to shed their pot belly" as a metaphor for "willing to train." What I was trying to get at, is that I think the average couch potato could learn to redpoint 5.12. I didn't mean to imply that he could do it without training, but rather, that he wouldn't have to have extraordinary athletic ability.
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
|
