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sid_rock
Mar 11, 2003, 4:59 AM
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I saw this exercise called Front Lever on the Metolius website . It looked pretty cool, so I tried to do this at the gym today from a hang bar, but I just couldn't get close! In fact, it felt physically impossible!!
Can anyone actually do this exercise, other than trained gymnasts? Any tips on how to do it, or how to train for it?
Edit: Thought I should add that I can do a back lever with ease, so I kinda assumed the front lever would be easy...
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tim
Mar 11, 2003, 5:05 AM
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d00d, John Gill (jgill) was famous for doing it ONE ARMED.
I can just about crank off a two arm front lever, but one-armed is unreal.
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curt
Mar 11, 2003, 5:16 AM
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ditto with Tim,
PM John Gill for tips. He is now 66 years old and can, I am sure, still do a front lever. He might cheat and use both arms now, though. Hehe.
Curt
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sid_rock
Mar 11, 2003, 5:19 AM
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In reply to: d00d, John Gill (jgill) was famous for doing it ONE ARMED. I can just about crank off a two arm front lever, but one-armed is unreal.
So, when you do a front lever does it look exactly like the picture (body parallel to ground) or are your legs higher (or lower) than your head? How long can you hold it? Is most of the stress on the wrists? Finally, are a trained gymnast who can also do an iron cross?!?
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woodse
Mar 11, 2003, 5:19 AM
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This'll answer your question:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/photos.php?Action=Show&PhotoID=8823
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sid_rock
Mar 11, 2003, 5:24 AM
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In reply to: This'll answer your question: http://www.rockclimbing.com/photos.php?Action=Show&PhotoID=8823
Wow, not only is it actually possible but this guy makes it look easy. Anyway, now that I have an actual picture (thanks woodse!) I know what I'm trying to do a whole lot better.
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woodse
Mar 11, 2003, 5:58 AM
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Tru, Gill makes it look VERY easy, check out some of the other pics he has posted, like this one:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/photos.php?Action=Show&PhotoID=5671
At first I was like "big deal" anyone can do that........until I tried it!!!!!!!!
woodsE
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legless
Mar 11, 2003, 6:08 AM
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i have a lot of upper body and core strength...
body flags, one arm pull ups, and front levers are no problem for me...recently i started trying to do one arm levers...those are definitely challenging---my shoulder felt a little tweaky after. none of it matters anyway...just supid party tricks. iron crosses seem pretty difficult as well---but apparently for gymnasts who do the rings it`s pretty low on the difficulty scale.
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funktimonious
Mar 11, 2003, 6:19 AM
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Man that's odd, I was just trying one of those front levers today, on my rock rings...I didn't come close.
It seems like half of it is abs and half of it is some upper-body muscle (which i don't seem to have).
Who is Metolius kidding by putting that in their instruction book?
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j33n33
Mar 11, 2003, 6:31 AM
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I used to be a gymnast and front levers are pretty easy. Iron crosses are tougher than levers though.
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sid_rock
Mar 11, 2003, 3:37 PM
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In reply to: Man that's odd, I was just trying one of those front levers today, on my rock rings...I didn't come close. It seems like half of it is abs and half of it is some upper-body muscle (which i don't seem to have). Who is Metolius kidding by putting that in their instruction book?
I felt the same way, like I was missing a muscle. I can kinda get there if I have my feet higher (or lower) than my head and my elbows bent. From there, trying to get to a real front lever seems physically impossible though. Yeah, don't know what Metolius is thinking. They also put an iron cross on their training manual, one of the hardest strength moves in gymnastics.
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sc_climber
Mar 11, 2003, 4:13 PM
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Front levers definitely take serious core + shoulder strength! I can only hold one for a few seconds on my rock rings. One way you can train to do a front lever is to only extend one leg at a time. Start off inverted then bend one leg and rotate your body until you're in position. No pain no gain! 8)
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rgold
Mar 11, 2003, 5:11 PM
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Like anything else, front levers can be trained. I think the training is fairly relevant to climbing. My evidence for this, after years in the gym, is that climbers, as a group, can come much much closer to doing front levers than any other group of athletes (except for gymnasts, of course). This means to me that climbing already emphasizes the levering muscles and so front levers may be useful for climbing.
If you want to work on front levers, here is what to do. First, you have to learn when you are in front lever position and when you aren't. Have someone hold your feet so that you can get in the correct postion. Look towards your feet. Notice that your chest basically blocks you view of your stomach and legs if your body is straight. If you try a front lever and you can see your waist and thighs, it means you are piked at the waist and aren't doing one.
Progression. Many climbers will be strong enough to do a stagged lever. This is done with one leg up, knee to chest. You've got it when you can hold for an honest three seconds, although for training you will want to work up to longer holds. Be sure to work both legs up equally.
If you can hold stagged levers, move on to split levers. In these, both legs are straight, but instead of being held together are held in as wide a straddle split as you can manage. This shifts your center of gravity up and makes the lever easier. As you get better, decrease the split angle.
If you have rings that are absolutely securely anchored, then you can begin from an inverted hang and lower into (or through if you can't hold it) a front lever. (Start with the stagged position.) An excellent exercise, that gives you a range of motion rather than a static hold, is to lower into the lever from inverted hang, hold for 1-3 secs, then pull back up to inverted hang. Remember that you are hanging upside down and a fall from that position will be catastrophic. Don't use rock rings for this and consider always having a spotter, whose job is to flip you so you don't crash straight down on your head.
What if you can't do a stagged lever? If you have a spotter, they can supply a judicious amount of upward force on your heels, giving you just enough help for 3 second holds. Even better (because more controllable) is to buy a length of latex surgical tubing (nowadays the best source for this seems to be diving equipment stores---do a Google search for latex surgical tubing or latex tubing). Make sure it is latex. Buy something with a very small inside diameter, so that it is mostly rubber, and perhaps 12' long. Hang a short sling on your tubing as a foot loop. Drape the tubing through your rings or over your chinning bar and grasp the rings (bar) on top of the tubing. If you're using a bar, the tubing can be tied to it with clove hitches. Make sure they're tight. Get a foot into the foot loop. The tubing should be very short, so this might be hard to do. You'll probably need a spotter to stretch the tubing down so that you can get your foot in. The tubing provides the upward force on the feet that allows you to do the lever. As you get stronger, lengthen the amount of tubing in the loop and you'll get less help.
The tubing has many other superb training applications. (Gymnasts originally used it for training iron crosses).
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sid_rock
Mar 11, 2003, 5:32 PM
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Thanks, rgold.
That's very useful advice, which I plan on using the next time I'm at the gym. Since you sound like you know what you're talking about, I got a question for you: why is it that I can do a back lever with ease but I can't even get close to a front lever? Don't they both fundamentally depend on the same thing, i.e., core strength?
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grigriese
Mar 11, 2003, 8:04 PM
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There is a guy that goes to Rockreation in LA that can do about 20 in a row as if they were nothing. Funny thing is I never see him climbing.
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curt
Mar 11, 2003, 8:05 PM
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Rich,
It's great having you contribute to RC.com. If you keep it up, the overall level of discourse here could go up significantly.
For those of you who do not know Rich Goldstone, check out this thread. It was posted in the "bouldering" area by John Gill a few months back.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20827
Curt
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sid_rock
Mar 11, 2003, 8:37 PM
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In reply to: I think core strength is important but not decisive. The front lever requires pectoralis, tricep and upper back strength (and these muscles are certainly central to climbing). The reason you sag in the middle isn't because your abs aren't strong enough, it is because you don't (yet) have the upper body strength to elevate your torso against the torque of the extended legs. In the back lever, your arms more or less lock for physiological reasons, and you only need the lower back and gluteus maxiumus strength to elevate and extend your legs. This is a much easier move; many climbers can do it the first time they try.
Thank you, Dr. Goldstone. Didn't realize you were a legend around here, now I feel quite flattered by your contribution to this thread. BTW I am headed back to school this fall to get my Master's degree in statistics. Who knows, maybe one day I'll be just like you--doing front levers and sporting a PhD in mathematics :-)
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da5id
Mar 12, 2003, 4:12 AM
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is that the sort of thing i'll kill myself (not litterally) trying? My gym has a hangboard up about 8 or 9 feet over some thick pads and i was thinking about trying it. anything i have to be careful about or try before gettin up there and making a fool of myself?
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sid_rock
Mar 12, 2003, 5:26 AM
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In reply to: is that the sort of thing i'll kill myself (not litterally) trying? My gym has a hangboard up about 8 or 9 feet over some thick pads and i was thinking about trying it. anything i have to be careful about or try before gettin up there and making a fool of myself?
Go for it, man! After rgold's advice (see post from rgold earlier in this thread--that will tell you all you need to know about the front lever), I tried it in the gym today and I made progress! I was able to the movement by starting with both knees to my chest and then extend only one leg slowly all the way out. I was able to hold this for only a second but it's still progress.
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merlin
Mar 19, 2003, 2:04 AM
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u say iron cross, and i keep thinking u mean the skiing trick, u know the ski's crossed and the grab... lol. i saw some video of some guy putting rings in like 50 metres of the deck and doing stuff like that, dont know what it was, at the climbing gym they had it... maybe masters of stone??
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