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spike
Mar 11, 2003, 12:29 AM
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Pete,
I have been looking at Sea Of Dreams and on P15 I see A4R, plus on Atlantic Ocean Wall P6 I see A4R. Could you describe what the R looks like.
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bigwalling
Mar 11, 2003, 12:55 AM
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Like "Oh shit! This damn hook better stay put, because those fucking #1 heads below me will surely blow. OH FUCK is that a ledge 60 feet below me?"
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mother_sheep
Mar 11, 2003, 10:43 PM
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. . .and when you get through answering that, will someone tell me how does a route gain an A5 raiting without someone having fallen to their death.
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flamer
Mar 12, 2003, 2:43 AM
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Tracy, It's theoretical....you see in theory someone COULD fall to their death. A lot of people don't believe in this type of rating...that's where the NBD and DFU ratings come into play....
josh
P.S. Don't ask me about these...it's somebody else's turn... :shock:
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jhwnewengland
Mar 12, 2003, 2:57 AM
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A5 doesn't mean death fall, it means possible 200 foot factor 2 fall (the belays are still solid). Of course, you COULD die pretty easily on a fall like that, but they have been taken and people have survived.
A6 is the theoretial rating - the belays aren't solid, most likely wouldn't hold a fall. Fall on that pitch, you probably die.
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passthepitonspete
Mar 12, 2003, 3:34 AM
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It looks haaaaarrrrd, mate.
DFU.
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bigwallben
Mar 12, 2003, 3:54 AM
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In reply to: A5 doesn't mean death fall, it means possible 200 foot factor 2 fall
Ben
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copperhead
Mar 12, 2003, 6:21 AM
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...and for it to be a factor 2 fall, you would have to back-clean the entire pitch.
Ratings are subjective and worthless.
I like this system:
1 rating for everything - YTM. 'You Tell Me'
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bigwallben
Mar 12, 2003, 6:25 AM
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In reply to: ...and for it to be a factor 2 fall, you would have to back-clean the entire pitch.
If you rip the entire pitch isn't that still a factor 2 fall?
Ben
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copperhead
Mar 12, 2003, 6:31 AM
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No, because ripping gear would slow down your fall.
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apollodorus
Mar 12, 2003, 6:44 AM
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The A5 Death Pitch on Reticent goes up above a big, sloped ledge. You wouldn't really factor 2 on that pitch. You'd first factor 0 onto the ledge, and then factor 1 after you rolled off it.
And A5 and Death Pitch are, indeed, theoretical. Hook or Book on the Sea of Dreams has been referred to as, "The first, if you fall, you die" pitch on El Capitan. But, Heinz57 saw an asian guy whip big on Hook or Book last fall, when he was on the Trip. And then the team retreated. So, there has been at least one fall on that pitch, and the leader lived.
What topo are you looking at that has A4R? Reid's doesn't have that. Is that A4 hooks, with very little other gear? Like Hook or Book?
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copperhead
Mar 12, 2003, 6:50 AM
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Apollo-
Your statement above proves that the rating system is worthless and that routes see serious degredation over time. The Reticent pitch is not a death pitch. Keep theorizing.
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apollodorus
Mar 12, 2003, 8:49 AM
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Yeah, Steve Gerberding told me last fall that he'd recently been up near that A5 pitch on Reticent, and he'd seen some heads pasted in. So, it's now A3, or something.
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spike
Mar 12, 2003, 3:18 PM
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Hi Apollodorus
Sea Of Dreams P15 I see A4R, plus Atlantic Ocean Wall P6 I see A4R in Yosemite Big Walls: Supertopos
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